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The Scabbard Of the Morning

Varys and Ros/QoT [Book Spoilers]

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Doesn't Varys disappear at the same time as Sansa? Or roughly at least.

Also, why would the QoT help the Lannisters find Sansa?

It's all good in my head just now. Who knows though?

Varys was offerring god dragons to anyone who would find Sansa, so no. That's not correct.

QoT wouldnt try and find Sansa for the Lannisters, OBVIOUSLY. She would find her for herself. She's already removed Joff by this point.

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Varys was offerring god dragons to anyone who would find Sansa, so no. That's not correct.

QoT wouldnt try and find Sansa for the Lannisters, OBVIOUSLY. She would find her for herself. She's already removed Joff by this point.

The QoT and Varys may know where Sansa is, but do not share the information with the Lannisters.

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The QoT and Varys may know where Sansa is, but do not share the information with the Lannisters.

Seems highly unlikely, why let LF hold such a valuable chess piece? Why just let him have the key to the North? Why go aroud offerring ransoms? Why try and get Sansa even at the PW?

We have to be able to make some logical inferrences via the text, even if its not explicitly stated. Baelish certainly has the skills to pull it off.

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Seems highly unlikely, why let LF hold such a valuable chess piece? Why just let him have the key to the North? Why go aroud offerring ransoms? Why try and get Sansa even at the PW?

We have to be able to make some logical inferrences via the text, even if its not explicitly stated. Baelish certainly has the skills to pull it off.

Yes, but they would want to have Sansa for their own game, so even if Varys tries to find Sansa in the books after the PW there would be no need to tell Cersei that his quest was successful.

Similar for the show. Even if he does not want LF to control Sansa, but knows that she is in the Vale, there is still no need to tell Cersei. Varys would plot to get Sansa in his control without Cersei's knowing. He could reveal her whenever it deems him an advantage for his own plans.

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Everyone knew Littlefinger was interested in Sansa. Cersei in one of her chapters thinks about how Littlefinger offered to marry Sansa right after Lord Eddard Stark was beheaded. So, Cersei knows. Besides, lots of people know the history of Littlefinger and how he was interested in Catelyn..

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Be patient. Yes, it might potentially blow up, but we'll see. There were other plots where I wondered how they were going to write themselves out of it, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't work that well. I don't think we quite have enough info from the show to properly speculate.

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The existence of Alayne Stone may be unkown outside the Vale. Y mention a bastard daughter who seems of no importance? And the Eyrie was very isolated with only few servants. So it would be difficult to get a spy in there.

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Yes, but they would want to have Sansa for their own game, so even if Varys tries to find Sansa in the books after the PW there would be no need to tell Cersei that his quest was successful.

Similar for the show. Even if he does not want LF to control Sansa, but knows that she is in the Vale, there is still no need to tell Cersei. Varys would plot to get Sansa in his control without Cersei's knowing. He could reveal her whenever it deems him an advantage for his own plans.

Obviously.

Shadrach said Varys was ifferring gold dragons for her, not gold dragons for bringing her to the lannisters. Key point being they would want sansa for themselves, not just to know Baelish had her because he can do whatever with her.

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The way I imagine this playing out:

Tywin gets wind of the plot to marry Sansa to Loras and hastily arranges the marriage to Tyrion.

LF discovers that Ros has been going through his books; he is angry with her and she somehow ends up with Ramsay (Tywin and Mr. Bolton are clearly pen pals at this point, so it's possible, at least TV-possible!). Then he goes away to the Vayle. He has to take extra care in proceeding with Sansa since his cover has been blown; enter Ser Dontos, whom viewers will remember from the opening scene of season 2.

QoT and Varys know what's up, but don't have the motivation to do much, since Sansa is officially a Lannister problem now. And with everyone all up in arms over Joffrey's murder and Tyrion's trial, Sansa is the least of their worries.

In other words, there's still plenty of room for events to play out more or less like the books, with some minor variations (Loras instead of Willas; Ros instead of Jeyne Poole.)

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The way I imagine this playing out:

Tywin gets wind of the plot to marry Sansa to Loras and hastily arranges the marriage to Tyrion.

LF discovers that Ros has been going through his books; he is angry with her and she somehow ends up with Ramsay (Tywin and Mr. Bolton are clearly pen pals at this point, so it's possible, at least TV-possible!). Then he goes away to the Vayle. He has to take extra care in proceeding with Sansa since his cover has been blown; enter Ser Dontos, whom viewers will remember from the opening scene of season 2.

QoT and Varys know what's up, but don't have the motivation to do much, since Sansa is officially a Lannister problem now. And with everyone all up in arms over Joffrey's murder and Tyrion's trial, Sansa is the least of their worries.

In other words, there's still plenty of room for events to play out more or less like the books, with some minor variations (Loras instead of Willas; Ros instead of Jeyne Poole.)

Enter dontas and nix Ros and things can be arranged. Varys and QoT will have no proof that it was LF, only suspiscion, which they should also have of each other.

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The way I imagine this playing out:

Tywin gets wind of the plot to marry Sansa to Loras and hastily arranges the marriage to Tyrion.

LF discovers that Ros has been going through his books; he is angry with her and she somehow ends up with Ramsay (Tywin and Mr. Bolton are clearly pen pals at this point, so it's possible, at least TV-possible!). Then he goes away to the Vayle. He has to take extra care in proceeding with Sansa since his cover has been blown; enter Ser Dontos, whom viewers will remember from the opening scene of season 2.

QoT and Varys know what's up, but don't have the motivation to do much, since Sansa is officially a Lannister problem now. And with everyone all up in arms over Joffrey's murder and Tyrion's trial, Sansa is the least of their worries.

In other words, there's still plenty of room for events to play out more or less like the books, with some minor variations (Loras instead of Willas; Ros instead of Jeyne Poole.)

I think Tywin will find out independently (I don't think Tywin has been "helped" by any character in the show so far thats part of what makes him so badass), Tywin sets up the match, then QoT tells LF that she knew about the plan bc of Varys. This puts them in a position to plan out the PW, and LF learns about Ros's double agentness through QoT. The only thing I am not sure of is why Varys would do nothing with the information, maybe he'll give hints to Pod or may cryptically give him the motivation to follow Brienne?

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Why would ROS being given to the Bolton's? Ros is 30 years plus. No one is buying she is Sansa Stark. That whole fake Arya subplot was foolish in the book and unbelievable anyways. They are better off with giving Talisa to Ramsay, ash she is the King of the North's wife.

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My issue is that they haven't shown us how dangerous he is, they've only told us. Varys this episode, Ros and Varys last season. We saw him betray Ned, but that really only shows he values power over anything. The amount of he-who-must-not-be-named-i-ness speak they throw around when Varys and others talks about Littlefinger doesn't seem warranted as we've seen quite a few people value power over anything. Is the fact that he came from nothing supposed to be proof that he has brains as well?

But then again, I just remembered he did arragned the Tyrell alliance last season. And the betrayal of Ned was a shrewd political move once you get past what he actually did. I don't know. I think his story line will be more more enjoyable for book readers on a second watch, once we know (and have hopefully accepted) what's been changed. And seeing how well they did Danaery's scene, I'm kind of hopeful they'll dissapoint us/make us happy/surprise us with Littlefinger's story line.

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Why would ROS being given to the Bolton's? Ros is 30 years plus. No one is buying she is Sansa Stark. That whole fake Arya subplot was foolish in the book and unbelievable anyways. They are better off with giving Talisa to Ramsay, ash she is the King of the North's wife.

The Boltons love to flay people and their bastard likes to hunt girls like dogs, so who's going to say anything? "Arya" would rarely be seen in public until the wedding at which point it will be too late. Roose is already backed by the Iron Throne, who could give two shits about whether they have the real Arya.

I agree Ros is too old, however. But considering her prior rolls in the hay with Theon she just seems like a good candidate.

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This is just what I think as well about Ros, particularly with the Theon scenes in the first season. Ros will end up the Bastard of Bolton and this makes much more sense than that she will always be a high-falutin' prostitute who will always be in KL. Otherwise, her involvement with Varys against LF makes no sense if, in the world of GoT she never gets caught and never gets 'punished' unduly for a good deed.

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I think the scenes from the newest episode if anything give me hope that the writers have finally heeded the fans and decided to get rid of Ros. Think about it, she is now in a perfect position to play the role of Dontos. I picture either Varys advises her to go with Sansa or she is invited by LF to join him on the trip to the Vale. When they get to the ship, she's confronted by LF who knows she's been consulting with Varys, sticks her through, then pushes her off the boat. I think the usefulness of Ros to the show is just about over. I don't see there being any way LF does not find out she's working with Varys and I know he's not going to be pleased with that. Also the fans will be able to see LF is a significant threat and is not one to be double crossed. It would be the first time the fans have seen him kill, foreshadowing Lysa Arryn, and how he won't let anyone get between him and Sansa.

That people are speculating Ros will go to Ramsay Bolton in Arya/Jeyne's place? What? She looks nothing like Sansa or Arya, she is not around their same age at all. There is no chance she would fool a single northern lord into thinking Ramsay legitimately married into Winterfell which is the only purpose of that union. I can see the show putting some suspense into that part, "We have Arya", fans get all worried wondering how that happened then it is revealed that it isn't her, just another girl in her place. They had Jeyne cast in an episode in the first season. I don't know, if they sent Ros to Ramsay Bolton it would make no sense in my opinion. I'm just hoping she isn't destined to be on the show for much longer.

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See my previous post.

(viewers) wouldn't think they have Arya, because Arya will have her own stuff going on, with the Brotherhood and later in Bravos.

Fake Arya doesn't need to actually fool anyone for the reasons I mentioned - mainly:

- very few people will see her.

- the Boltons are feared for their cruel reputation - who's going to stop them?

- the Boltons are backed by the Iron Throne - who's going to stop them?

ETA:

It might make sense for Talisa, not Ros, to be passed off as fake Arya. Whatever happens between her and Theon would also have meaning since she would be his only link to Robb's memory. However, there are strong clues from the show that she is tight with the Lannisters, so it's questionable whether they would put her through all that (unless they don't know about some of Ramsay's hobbies).

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Littlefinger will come to Sansa in an episode soon and tell her that they are ready to leave to go to the Vale. At which point Sansa will reject him because she is happy enough to marry Loras and go to Highgarden. At which point Littlefinger will (probably off screen) tell Tywin and Tywin will arrange the marriage to Tyrion. Littlefinger then arranges Joffrey's death (possibly by telling a lie to Joffrey about Margaery, getting him to abuse her) and either implicates Sansa in it or fakes her death. Maybe Littlefinger's "fake" solution will be a fake dead body for Sansa. Could be Ros, even.

There's no reason to worry. It'll all work out well enough as it did in the books.

I really like this "faking Sansa's death" idea. Plus, it concludes Ros' arc. LF can have her killed after he finds out she's been spying on him. This could work. However, it muddles up Brienne's arc

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See my previous post.

(viewers) wouldn't think they have Arya, because Arya will have her own stuff going on, with the Brotherhood and later in Bravos.

Fake Arya doesn't need to actually fool anyone for the reasons I mentioned - mainly:

- very few people will see her.

- the Boltons are feared for their cruel reputation - who's going to stop them?

- the Boltons are backed by the Iron Throne - who's going to stop them?

ETA:

It might make sense for Talisa, not Ros, to be passed off as fake Arya. Whatever happens between her and Theon would also have meaning since she would be his only link to Robb's memory. However, there are strong clues from the show that she is tight with the Lannisters, so it's questionable whether they would put her through all that (unless they don't know about some of Ramsay's hobbies).

I think in one of the teaser previews for the season they showed Talisa standing next to Robb at the RW, I think there's a chance they might kill her off so all the speculation regarding Jeyne Westerling possibly being pregnant with Robb's heir would be moot.

Hopefully I didn't come over as rude in my previous post, just the "Ros as Arya" thing wouldn't work in my mind, not saying the show might not decide to go that direction. The Bolton's cruel reputation and ties to the iron throne are not what is keeping them alive right now, it is the fact that there are more Freys/Boltons at Winterfell in ADWD than there are loyal northmen. Dustin will flip, Ryswell will flip, Manderly is barely hiding his support for the Starks, and Whoresbane is stuck in a position where he can' t retaliate without the Freys killing the Greatjon. No southern kingdom is sending their men up north to help Roose in winter, they are pretty much on their own.

While B&W have taken some liberties with the shows, I'm hoping they don't send Ros or Talisa in Jeyne Poole's place. Not saying it couldn't happen just hoping it doesn't.

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