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Fire Eater

A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up Part 2

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I felt that Apple's thread deserved to be continued just in case any other foreshadowing is picked up.

First one from Apple

Good one, especially because it's common for men swearing fealty to say something like, "My sword is yours," in some variation. So "no matter how many swords they give me" can refer to either literal presented swords, or the figurative allegiances that a king or prince would receive.

Second one from a new poster

This is my first post, so I'm sorry if someone already had this idea or if I'm being idiot...

I don't think this is really the right place for my little theory, but I've read you guys discussing on Rhaegar's rubies a couple of pages back and that got me thinking...

So, this is the part about the rubies:

Well, the Ghost of High Heart said that the PtwP would be born from Aerys and Rhaella line. We know that there are 6 confirmed descendants of them:

- Rhaegar and his children, Rhaenys and Aegon (dead or not)

- Viserys

- Dany and Rhaego (stillborn, I know, but still...)

This is a nice parallel with the rubies. "Six have been found". But they're waiting for the seventh, like someone said, it's almost like they are waiting for a savior.

So, perhaps this passage is a hint that none of the know Targaryens of Aerys line are the PtwP, but there's still one not found yet.

I really believe that R+L=J, so Jon is the seventh ruby, thus the savior, the PtwP

It's certainly a stretch, or even a crackpot theory, because the rubies are Rhaegars, not Aerys, and Rhaego was stillborn, etc. But, after all, it doesn't change anything if it's right, it's just Martin showing what a great writer he is by hiding this litlle clues. I just wanted to know if I'm getting really crazy or if it does make sense.

This is NOT a thread to discuss Jon's legitimacy as a Stark, but to look at the foreshadowing pointing to Jon as King or hero.

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I am not a fan of the R+L=J theory. But I do like rubies, so let me say that you can solve the problem of whether these are heirs of Rhaegar or Aerys by adding Rhaella into the mix. In other words, Rhaegar had 6 known heirs: Aegon, followed by Viserys, then Rhaego, then Rhaenys, then Daenerys, then Rhaella. If Jon Snow were Rhaegar's son he would be the one who wasn't found yet (although he would be number 2, not number 7; and if you include Rhaego, who is House Drogo, you probably have to include Robert, Stannis, Renly and Shireen, for a total of 10 heirs; maybe some Martells, too).

Maybe if you made it the heirs of Aerys: Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Rhaego, Rhaenys, Daenerys, Rhaella, then Jon?

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I am not a fan of the R+L=J theory. But I do like rubies, so let me say that you can solve the problem of whether these are heirs of Rhaegar or Aerys by adding Rhaella into the mix. In other words, Rhaegar had 6 known heirs: Aegon, followed by Viserys, then Rhaego, then Rhaenys, then Daenerys, then Rhaella. If Jon Snow were Rhaegar's son he would be the one who wasn't found yet (although he would be number 2, not number 7; and if you include Rhaego, who is House Drogo, you probably have to include Robert, Stannis, Renly and Shireen, for a total of 10 heirs; maybe some Martells, too).

Maybe if you made it the heirs of Aerys: Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Rhaego, Rhaenys, Daenerys, Rhaella, then Jon?

This theory isn't speaking to the number of his heirs, but the number of his descendants. Rhaella is his sister/wife, which means she can't be of his line.

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ohhh the 7th ruby interpretation was good! :)

I always thought it meant something, but I didn't know what. I'm a firm believer that it's THIS now.

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This theory isn't speaking to the number of his heirs, but the number of his descendants. Rhaella is his sister/wife, which means she can't be of his line.

Okay, I follow now. I guess the numbers will work if Daenerys is really barren and Jon has no children too, either because of his Night's Watch oath or because he's dead.

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Jon being the seventh Ruby would be interesting, made me think of that seventh sons commonly were associated with some sort of power or magic in many cultures. Obviously he isn't really the seventh son, but still. Also made me think of the White Stripes (Ball and Biscuit line about being the seventh son)

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Not only did 6 (of 7) rubies wash up on the Quiet Isle, but a black dragons head, red with rust. Portents indeed. 6 heirs, 1 missing, and a black dragon pretending to be red. ooooooo very good, I like this more and more :)

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Not only did 6 (of 7) rubies wash up on the Quiet Isle, but a black dragons head, red with rust. Portents indeed. 6 heirs, 1 missing, and a black dragon pretending to be red. ooooooo very good, I like this more and more :)

I wonder if a dragon that's spent so much time in the water doesn't become part fish. A herring, perhaps?

---

Another bit to add wrt to Rhaegar's rubies, from ASoS:

“My queen,” the big man said slowly, “all you say is true. But Rhaegar lost on the Trident. He lost the battle, he lost the war, he lost the kingdom, and he lost his life. His blood swirled downriver with the rubies from his breastplate, and Robert the Usurper rode over his corpse to steal the iron Throne. Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.”

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Aside from the analysis I posted of The moment when all the smiles died, there is this bit two paragraphs before it:

He remembered Jaime Lannister, a golden youth in scaled white armor, kneeling on the grass in front of the king’s pavilion and making his vows to protect and defend King Aerys. Afterward, Ser Oswell Whent helped Jaime to his feet, and the White Bull himself, Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower, fastened the snowy cloak of the Kingsguard about his shoulders.

The relevant paragraphs from Eddard XV:

He could no longer tell the difference between waking and sleeping. The memory came creeping upon him in the darkness, as vivid as a dream. It was the year of false spring, and he was eighteen again, down from the Eyrie to the tourney at Harrenhal. He could see the deep green of the grass, and smell the pollen on the wind. Warm days and cool nights and the sweet taste of wine. He remembered Brandon’s laughter, and Robert’s berserk valor in the melee, the way he laughed as he unhorsed men left and right. He remembered Jaime Lannister, a golden youth in scaled white armor, kneeling on the grass in front of the king’s pavilion and making his vows to protect and defend King Aerys. Afterward, Ser Oswell Whent helped Jaime to his feet, and the White Bull himself, Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower, fastened the snowy cloak of the Kingsguard about his shoulders. All six White Swords were there to welcome their newest brother.

Yet when the jousting began, the day belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen. The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House

wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. Brandon fell to him, and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning.

Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion’s crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.

Ned Stark reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the thorns lay hidden. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke, trembling, in the dark.

Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses.

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really love the ruby connection - reminds me of finding the direwolves for Starks....

Also there is a similarity to how the Targaryen's walked the halls of the dragons remembering the dragons, and the Stark's walked the halls of the crypts rembering the past Stark rulers....

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This one might have some potential

Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning. All those he shared with Ygritte, but not some of the others. We look up at the same stars, and see such different things. The King’s Crown was the Cradle, to hear her tell it;

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Can't take credit for this one, but it's good and I could kick myself for not seeing it earlier.

I'm almost sure this has been posted already considering how many of these there are, but just in case, this has been on my mind recently:

Patchface, and in the show Shireen sings

"Under the sea the snow falls up"

I can't help but see a connection to Jon there. Under the sea for Patchface generally relates to death or something done in secret. All the other kings fall from power, but Jon who is a Snow may be the secret child of Rhaegar and heir to the throne, and through death and resurrection might become Azor Ahai reborn, forsake the Night's Watch being that his watch "ended" with his death, and come into power, thus falling up in terms of society. Just a thought I had.

Bold is mine, for emphasis. :D

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Not only did 6 (of 7) rubies wash up on the Quiet Isle, but a black dragons head, red with rust. Portents indeed. 6 heirs, 1 missing, and a black dragon pretending to be red. ooooooo very good, I like this more and more

Can someone get a quote from the books regarding what washed up at Quiet Isle?

Black dragons head, red with rust. This is very interesting.

Because black dragon on a red blackground is the Blackfyre sigil.

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I don't know if this was already posted in the first A King in Hiding thread but I found this little bit just now (I'm rereading ADWD). This is from the prologue, Varamyr's point of view.

"Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king."

Found it interesting because since we all know what happened to Jon at the end of ADWD plus the speculation that he may spend some time being Ghost during his coma/before being woken up again by Melisandre. I really don't know how to explain why I found it interesting (I'm sorry, I'm new to the whole speculation thing) but the quote has a nice ring to it and may hint at Jon's real identity and his eventual "second life" which is that as a king.

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This is based on a post I made at the Jon Snow reread and Fire Eater has encourage me to add it here:

In chapter V, the night before he said his vows Jon went for a ride and eventually reach the Kingsroad.

Jon Snow turned away from the kingsroad to look behind him. The fires of Castle Black were hidden behind a hill, but the Wall was there, pale beneath the moon, vast and cold, running from horizon to horizon…

...The world was down that road... and he was here…Once he swore his vow, the Wall would be his home until he was old as Maester Aemon

Jon has a choice to make by the end of this chapter. The Wall or the road? I personally feel that this is the first temptation to leave the wall Jon has to confront and it makes sense that Jon’s doubts in this instance are all self created, with no influence from the outer world (no Ned’s execution, no Ygritte and no pink letter). In this instance, Jon has to battle with himself and himself only. There is no other factor pulling him in another direction, like in the cases I mentioned above.

Whereas the Wall is described as extending from horizon to horizon, limiting and restricting, the road is full of endless possibilities even if it holds no particular promise. Finally, Jon made his choice:

He wheeled his horse around and started for home.

The fact that the Wall becomes “home” at this moment is very significant I feel. When Jon turned his horse and headed for “home”, where he was expected to swear a vow forbidding him to hold lands or wear a crown the next day, we are left with the Kingsroad becoming the road not taken.

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I don't know if this was already posted in the first A King in Hiding thread but I found this little bit just now (I'm rereading ADWD). This is from the prologue, Varamyr's point of view.

Found it interesting because since we all know what happened to Jon at the end of ADWD plus the speculation that he may spend some time being Ghost during his coma/before being woken up again by Melisandre. I really don't know how to explain why I found it interesting (I'm sorry, I'm new to the whole speculation thing) but the quote has a nice ring to it and may hint at Jon's real identity and his eventual "second life" which is that as a king.

Yes, this has been discussed and is a great catch, exactly in the spirit of this thread.

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