A King in Hiding: Adding It All Up Part 2

[alienarea]

Rhaegar and Lyanna were most probably married ;)

If so, what does it prove?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I thought of a simplistic connection of Jon Snow to the Targaryens and specifically to a marriage with Daenerys Targaryen-- the girl "kissed by fire", Ygritte. Ygritte is not only red(dragon)-haired, but she's also independent and boisterous, scornful of "kneelers". She wouldn't be kneeling if she was Queen... Daenerys Targaryen + Jon Snow, anyone? I can't be the first to point it out. As a little side note, recall that Ygritte and wildlings in general -- with a strong connection to Jon Snow -- are woefully ignorant of the politics and general shape of Westeros, just like the Meereenese and the Dothrakis.

If that ship does sail, there's no question that they'd be powerful, perhaps even King and Queen.

Yes there is a lot of foreshadowing that they will have a sort of relationship, whether, family or romantic, time will tell.

However people on the forum tend to dislike the romantic one, I am indifferent towards it I wouldn't care if it did or didn't happen.

I usually ship Jon and Satin though :P

[Nuncle Kraken]

Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin's Roost again. To end the Usurper's line for good and all, and put Rhaegar's son upon the Iron Throne.

I think the Usurper in this moment is Cersei who usurped the throne from Robert and the Baratheons. Given Maggy's prophecy, Cersei's line will end with the deaths of her children. After that, Rhaegar's son, Jon, will be put upon the IT.

I said the same in another thread a while back. I think it was a crackpot thread. I was wondering if JonCon knows/suspects Aegon is fake due to Varys/Illyrio backing him without helping Dany and her idiot brother much at all. If their goal is the restoration of the targs, why ignore them for the most part? I also think JonCon may know that Jon exists. I know my little theory is totally cracked, but I think Jon is using Aegon/Illyrio/Varys/Golden Co, to place Jon on the IT.

[Fire Eater]

This may be reaching but here goes

The King's Crown was the cradle to hear her tell it

Catelyn Tully was a mouse or she would have smothered this Jon Snow in his cradle.

I said the same in another thread a while back. I think it was a crackpot thread. I was wondering if JonCon knows/suspects Aegon is fake due to Varys/Illyrio backing him without helping Dany and her idiot brother much at all. If their goal is the restoration of the targs, why ignore them for the most part? I also think JonCon may know that Jon exists. I know my little theory is totally cracked, but I think Jon is using Aegon/Illyrio/Varys/Golden Co, to place Jon on the IT.

From JonCon's POV it is clear he believes Aegon to be Rhaegar's son. I don't think he knows about Jon.

[Corvinus85]

I said the same in another thread a while back. I think it was a crackpot thread. I was wondering if JonCon knows/suspects Aegon is fake due to Varys/Illyrio backing him without helping Dany and her idiot brother much at all. If their goal is the restoration of the targs, why ignore them for the most part? I also think JonCon may know that Jon exists. I know my little theory is totally cracked, but I think Jon is using Aegon/Illyrio/Varys/Golden Co, to place Jon on the IT.

Like Fire Eater said JonCon in convinced that Aegon is real. Also in the Lost Lord chapter when he and the captains of the GC argue where to go, someone mentions that the original plan was to have Viserys join them with Drogo's khalasar. But one after the other, Illyrio's plans keep getting thwarted.

[Eira Seren]

This is based on a post I made at the Jon Snow reread and Fire Eater has encourage me to add it here:

In chapter V, the night before he said his vows Jon went for a ride and eventually reach the Kingsroad.

Jon has a choice to make by the end of this chapter. The Wall or the road? I personally feel that this is the first temptation to leave the wall Jon has to confront and it makes sense that Jon’s doubts in this instance are all self created, with no influence from the outer world (no Ned’s execution, no Ygritte and no pink letter). In this instance, Jon has to battle with himself and himself only. There is no other factor pulling him in another direction, like in the cases I mentioned above.

Whereas the Wall is described as extending from horizon to horizon, limiting and restricting, the road is full of endless possibilities even if it holds no particular promise. Finally, Jon made his choice:

The fact that the Wall becomes “home” at this moment is very significant I feel. When Jon turned his horse and headed for “home”, where he was expected to swear a vow forbidding him to hold lands or wear a crown the next day, we are left with the Kingsroad becoming the road not taken.

nice reading. This makes Jon's road not taken the same one as Maester Aemon's.

[King of Winters]

That can easily be explained by saying the KG were following orders till the very end. And this still doesn't explain why Jon himself is the product of R+L.

So Ser Gerold Hightower just left the rightful King of Westeros alone on Dragonstone without any Kingsguard to protect what? You say this isn't a product of R+L. So what were they protecting? A fevered up young girl who was close to death?

I do think R+L=J is true, what I don't believe is something as ridiculous as King Jon Targaryen; the whole idea destroys the whole purpose of the GoT

How so? Jon would be the rightful Targ King and because you think it's ridiculous, because you probably see it as cliche(?), and so it doesn't happen? Would it still be ridiculous if GRRM wrote in a good way and not be just "bad writing".

Well if a Northern bastard thinks he's Rhaegar's son, I think I'd know where my priorities lied.

I don't even think Jon may be awakened yet when Aegon's Conquest is known through out Westeros. Or possibly Jon hears about the Dance and keeps quiet because it would be dumb to say "Hey! I'm Rhaegar's long lost son. This puts one of you behind me in succession. No hard feelings, I'm sure we can work together".

And why do you think Dany would kill her only remaining family who is the only possible way to continue the Targaryen line?

Also I can totally see Dany teaming with Aegon if he tells her there's some bastard who thinks he's Rhaegar's son. She'll instantly assume Jon's the mummer's dragon.

Again I don't think Jon will be awake when Dany lands, or he might not know his true parentage yet.

Dany will see Aegon as the mummer's dragon when she lands and then start the Second Dance of the Dragons.

1. The GNC is going to be made void the minute Davos turns up with Rickon

2. Why do you insist on destroying such a complex story line in order to make the hero's life a walk in the park?

3. There's nothing of value in the tombs that could ever make anyone believe Jon is Rhaegar's son

What if Jon is declared King before Rickon turns up? Jon will most likely become protector of Rickon while he's young.

Why do you insist that there can't be something in Lyanna's tomb about R+L? It would make sense for there to be something in her tomb as Jon has dreams of not wanting to go down to the crypts, as he thinks doesn't belong there.

Targ cloak proves nothing, especially when Aegon, Dany, Sansa and Rickon are in the picture. Torrhen's Crown is just wishful thinking, I have seen absolutely no logic in how Rhaegar would have it and why Ned would keep something so dangerous to Jon.

If you looked up the theory of Torrhen's Crown then you would know that the reason Rhaegar gave Lyanna the Crown was because he loved her, and last time it was seen or heard a out was when Torrhen gave it to Aegon the Conqueror. Cat also says, thinking about it, "no man could say what he (Aegon) done with" but a woman could. Rhaegar could have gotten the Crown from the Red Keep and given it to Lya to show his love for her and because their child would be half Northern.

Don't know about you but I've read ASOIAF and I know George doesn't let characters have a walk in the park. I also know he's constantly reminding readers that the GoT and its players decide who sits on the IT.

Well I don't know about you, but sometimes characters get what they want, even of it is difficult. Jon may get the Throne in the end. It might not be "a walk in the park" for him but he may get it in the end. And by the time Jon enters The Game, if he does, Sansa will have dealt with LF and Varys will have probably been killed, maybe by Dany.

Or those dreams could just show how much Jon doesn't feel like he belongs in WF because he's a bastard and is constantly reminded of it.

And maybe there's something else to it. There's one where the Kings in the North are looking down from their stone thrones, which could mean something else, they may know where Jon comes from.

I'm going to be so disappointed if George decides his characters are dumb enough to believe R+L=J based on some cloak found by either a Crag man or a bastard. I'm also going to be confused as to why Ned would keep anything that would threaten Jon; this man wouldn't even tell his own wife because of his paranoia

Ned would keep things Lyanna had in her tomb that prove R+L because she loved Rhaegar and she may have told Ned she wanted to be buried with them, or he buried them with her because he knew she loved Rhaegar and would have wanted to be buried with the things. And he could have also put them in there because he was going to tell Jon the truth and wanted to have something that would prove it to Jon.

[Slackylc]

snip

There's also this from Joffrey's wedding.

"I have no wine," Joffrey declared. "How can I drink a toast if I have no wine? Uncle Imp, you can serve me. Since you won't joust you'll be my cupbearer."

"It's not meant to be an honour!" Joffrey screamed."Bend down and pick up my chalice." Tyrion did as he was bid, but as he reached for the handle Joff kicked the chalice through his legs. "Pick it up! Are you as clumsy as you are ugly?" He has to crawl under the table to find the thing. "Good, now fill it with wine." He claimed a flagon from a serving girl and filled the goblet three-quarters full. "No, on your knees, dwarf." Kneeling, Tyrion raised up the heavy cup, wondering if he was about to get a second bath. But Joffrey took the wedding chalice one-handed, drank deep, and set it on the table. "You can get up now, Uncle."

Again there's Tyrion angering royalty, although this time a King, not a Prince. And again he swallows his pride and does what he is told.

[Fire Eater]

Something I posted in another thread

When he touched it his black gloves came away stained with red

The colors of his house; that results after he is permanently scarred by Orell's eagle. The ancient Greeks regarded the eagle as a symbol of authority and rulership, and several cultures from the Greeks to the Aztecs regarded the eagle as the highest messenger of the gods.

The ancient Greeks also connected the eagle with Zeus, the king of the gods while the Romans associated the eagle with Jupiter, the king of the gods; and the Germanic tribes with Odin, also the king of the gods and later Christians associated the eagle with Christ. It can be taken to imply that Jon has been (perhaps divinely) marked as king.

[Lyse Stark]

Brienne says: "I was also taught that the gods make kings, not swords of men. If Stannis is our rightful King-..."

Cat butts in: "he's not. Robert was never the rightful king either, even Renly said a much. Jaime lannister murdered the rightful king, after Robert killed his lawful heir on the Trident."

I think this is foreshadowing the Old Gods marking Jon Snow as the rightful King.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Lol, had Catt known who she was pointing out 'should be' the rightful king when she said that, she'd never opened up her mouth in the first place.

[Lyse Stark]

Lol, had Catt known who she was pointing out 'should be' the rightful king when she said that, she'd never opened up her mouth in the first place.

The Old gods marked Jon Snow as king because they knew that Jon would be the last hope to defeat the Others.

[Fire Eater]

Jon laughed like a drunk or a madman

He [barristan] had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

Another hint

[Roddy the Ruin]

Jon laughed like a drunk or a madman

He [barristan] had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

Another hint

duuuuude!

[J. Stargaryen]

Jon laughed like a drunk or a madman

He [barristan] had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

Another hint

:thumbsup:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Jon laughed like a drunk or a madman

He [barristan] had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

Another hint

:drool:

ETA: To put the Jon quote in context, it occurs in SoS during the fight on the Wall and he's trying to rally the men and give them instructions.

"Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. "

So Jon is laughing, during one of his first real trials as a leader, hedged in language that has applied to two different kings, and his men are following him and rolling with it. Interesting. The "... and his men laughed with him" line is what makes it stick out to me, after the parallel with Barristan's thought.

[Roddy the Ruin]

:drool:

ETA: To put the Jon quote in context, it occurs in SoS during the fight on the Wall and he's trying to rally the men and give them instructions.

"Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. "

So Jon is laughing, during one of his first real trials as a leader, hedged in language that as applied to two different kings, and his men are following him and rolling with it. Interesting.

maybe he takes a little after Uncle Brandon

[Fire Eater]

:drool:

ETA: To put the Jon quote in context, it occurs in SoS during the fight on the Wall and he's trying to rally the men and give them instructions.

"Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. "

So Jon is laughing, during one of his first real trials as a leader, hedged in language that has applied to two different kings, and his men are following him and rolling with it. Interesting. The "... and his men laughed with him" line is what makes it stick out to me, after the parallel with Barristan's thought.

He laughed . . . and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him.

[Roddy the Ruin]

He laughed . . . and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him.

:thumbsup:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

He laughed . . . and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him.

Well there you go.

ETA: I gotta say the drunk/madman and laughing thing, if it is deliberate, is clever as hell. When it's spelled out and put side by side like that, it's also compelling to the point where you'd have to be in deep damn denial not to admit it.