[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

[newwb]

only problem with the episode was robb's little strategy moment. the show has done a poor job articulating robb's political and military situation (which, granted, is kind of of complicated). in season 1 he acquires lord frey's levies - he says frey only kept the men he needed to guard the twins. now he says frey is the only lord who hasn't committed his men yet. i imagine this will be very confusing to non book readers.

other than that great episode. loved hound/beric and creepy patchface song.

[Kasrith]

Also the last fetus she named was Edric - nice nod to Storm who most likely is out of the show altogether.

[dtones520]

Great episode. Very gripping acting. The guy portraying Qyburn is like exactly how I pictured him in my head; voice and everything.

Also, I've found if I just try and put the books out of my head for an hour and enjoy the show for what it is, the changes don't really bother me. I still enjoy the scenes that follow the books to the T but the changes, for the most part, make things a lot less confusing for TV viewers only.

[Ser_Patreck]

Dead fetuses in a jar? I mean, really? Ok, ok, D&D, everyone gets Stannis and his assorted cast are a bunch of creepy weirdos. Tone down that shit.

That was the only negative point in the best episode so far, tough (Yes, even better than "dracarys"), plus we got cute Shireen being cute (Loved that it's going to be her teaching Davos how to read), so I guess it's forgivable.

The acting was perfect (Even the Beyond the Wall people!), especially NCW, Charles Dance and Maisie Williams. But what I liked best about this episode was the way the juxtaposition of the scenes underlined the importance of concepts like loyalty, honor and duty to all Westerosi. Rickard Karstark, Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy... Even Gendry, in a way.

ETA: Plus, Yunkai in the credits. That was Astapor before, right? Nice to see it moving along with the story.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Ser_Patreck

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

This is sarcasm right? We already know Loras is gay.

Loras was in love with Renly and said that he could never love another in the books, here he jumps into bed with random guys he just met.

[Bastard Walder]

There's quite a bit of faithful and/or well-adapted material in this episode. Did not care at all for the show's Selyse, though.

And then there's the Loras scene. That's a shared second place for worst travesty of the show (#1 is the House of the undying, the other #2 is Catelyn's and Talisa's scene about Jon) and its a complete character assassination.

I don't know if you're serious or not, but who cares about Loras? That's like complaining that they ruined Doreah's character

[Trebla]

This is sarcasm right? We already know Loras is gay.

I think it's because Loras so readily just jumped into bed with the first squire he looked his way. Book Loras vowed to never love again after Renly died.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

This is sarcasm right? We already know Loras is gay.

We know he's gay but in the books he's so devoted to Renly. He tells Tyrion something like when the sun is set no candle in the world can compare.

The show took a more realistic approach, I guess, which is that while Lora's mourned Renly he didn't totally lose his sexual drive. But it is a big deviation for his character.

[Mya Stone]

This is sarcasm right? We already know Loras is gay.

Pretty sure what Linda means is that a huge part of Loras's book characterization is his undying love of Renly. It's part of the reason he joins the Kingsguard.

[Lord Martin]

By the way, how the hell would Tywin know the Karstarks left Robb so quickly? Roose isn't in Riverrun so there must be another spy. Well even if there's another spy that information was delivered pretty quick, but I'm willing to suspend belief if there is indeed another spy.

Talisa... It's so talisa... I have to think that bit confirms it.

She's highly suspect, claims to be low born from volantis but says my lord not "milord." She claims she knows nothing of Westerosi custom but knew the wedding words of the seven and what supplies maesters had. Now she is privy to his plans re Lannisport and Frey and Tywin mentions that he's learned just about everything going on in robbs camp.

Im pretty sure it's her.

[Broken Fox]

He was a rebound. Doesn't mean Loras stopped mourning Renly.

[Trebla]

Also the last fetus she named was Edric - nice nod to Storm who most likely is out of the show altogether.

Yeah, for people who've asked what happened to Edric Storm, well there he is floating in the jar! :stillsick:

[Tom son of Tom]

I'm ok with the Loras part because (correct me if I'm wrong) TV Loras has not vowed to never love another.

[Montey14]

By the way, how the hell would Tywin know the Karstarks left Robb so quickly? Roose isn't in Riverrun so there must be another spy. Well even if there's another spy that information was delivered pretty quick, but I'm willing to suspend belief if there is indeed another spy.

Not sure if Talisa has any family with her.....but in the books ...the mother was a piece of work and set up the whole thing with her marrying robb

[dtones520]

There's quite a bit of faithful and/or well-adapted material in this episode. Did not care at all for the show's Selyse, though.

And then there's the Loras scene. That's a shared second place for worst travesty of the show (#1 is the House of the undying, the other #2 is Catelyn's and Talisa's scene about Jon) and its a complete character assassination.

How do you figure? Loras is not a POV, we don't truly know his character other than him being full of himself, naive and gay. So, maybe the show Loras doesn't live up to how you've pieced him together in your mind, but he is just being fleshed out more in the show and also taking on the roles of multiple Tyrells to avoid confusion for TV viewers.

[Bastard Walder]

Talisa... It's so talisa... I have to think that bit confirms it.

She's highly suspect, claims to be low born from volantis but says my lord not "milord." She claims she knows nothing of Westerosi custom but knew the wedding words of the seven and what supplies maesters had. Now she is privy to his plans re Lannisport and Frey and Tywin mentions that he's learned just about everything going on in robbs camp.

Im pretty sure it's her.

She said she was from a noble family, and has a last name. She was probably educated on Westoros customs (when she wasn't getting aroused by talking about her dying siblings)

[Bastard of Boston]

I think the problem Linda has is with the fact that Loras would jump into bed with another man after being so emotionally ravaged by Renly's death. It didn't bother me much, but it did portray Loras as somewhat of a loose individual.

[Oakenfist]

Since many of you replied to me I won't quote you all, but good point about Loras and Renly.

I really forgot that Loras loved Renly so much and vowed to hunt down Stannis because he hasn't shown to be depressed all season.

[Zman1863]

I did not really love the Jon and Ygritte scene. It felt like they combined their whole romance into a single scene and was a bit rushed. But it's understandable with everything they have to juggle around.

I liked that we saw scenes with Stannis in a more human setting, but I didn't like the babies in jars thing or the scene between Stannis and his wife in general. Liked the Shireen stuff though.

[King of the Wall]

This episode was just as good as "Dracarys" but in a completely different manner. It was creepy, heartbreaking, exciting, revealing all at once.

Selyse is INSANE. I wasn't expecting those fetuses. Last episode when Melisandre talked about others with king's blood I though she was referring to Shireen. And Shireen was great, greyscale looked good in my opinion. She seemed like a nice cheerful kid. I liked that change.

I loved Shireen singing in the credits, I listened until the end.

Stannis was clearly unconfortable around his family, it was some good acting.

Arya was the most heartbreaking for me. Nothing will surpass "I can be your family".

Grey worm was nice, just like in the books.

The bath scene also lived up to the books, right on the spot.

The show never made a point of how Moat Calin is unconquerable from the south ( I dont think they ever mention it) so they had Robb march on Casterly Rock, but I don't know how they will make his will reach the neck. That will seems to be important for the future events.

I liked how they made Karstark execution look so much like Ned executing that from the Watch. They even changed his weapon to a sword and made the sword fall with just one blow. Richard Madden's movements even ressembled Sean Bean's.

Anyway, Great episode.