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[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion


Ran
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I disagree. Like I said before, she would've been more atracted and impresed by Jon IF he would've spared her life letting her go, like in the book. In the show he had the intention of killing her, he just failed, which makes him look more pathetic in a Wildlings eyes. Ygritte would still be impresed if Jon killed Qhorin like in the book. All those escenes you mentioned happened in season 3, so they didn't really expand the relationship in season 2. But still the scenes weren't enough because it felt very forced.

Mate, he did not fail, he missed on purpose. Watch the scene again!

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Are they not going to use the Lord of Light's real name in this show? Haven't even heard a mention of the "God whose name should not be spoken" yet, have we?

No mention of Balon Greyjoy yet either, thought his death was announced at the small council before Tywin announced these two new marriages.

Edited by Godfrey
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Are they not going to use the Lord of Light's real name in this show? Haven't even heard a mention of the "God whose name should not be spoken" have we?

No mention of Balon Greyjoy yet either, thought his death was announced at the small council before Tywin announced these two new marriages.

Nope. Balon is still very much alive when Tywin plans the marriages in the books. But you do bring up a point that's been bugging me this entire season? There's been virtually no mention of the ironborn, and they've been reduced to an afterthought, despite them holding some notable castles in the North. I really hope the show addresses them ASAP.

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Nope. Balon is still very much alive when Tywin plans the marriages in the books. But you do bring up a point that's been bugging me this entire season? There's been virtually no mention of the ironborn, and they've been reduced to an afterthought, despite them holding some notable castles in the North. I really hope the show addresses them ASAP.

well the trailer shows Asha getting her trrops ready. so there's got to be some iron born.
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There was so much good stuff in this episode. I love how they have captured The Hound so perfectly now that he's fled King's Landing and abandoned the Lannisters. He's confused and angrier than usual. The fight scene with he and Beric was fantastic. I personally enjoyed seeing Selyse and the her creep factor was handled really well.

Several things disappointed me. Loras' character is mishandled. Instead of seeing his devotion to Renly, we see an opportunistic, lusty, politico. Brianne gets all of the devotion to Renly and Loras gets to roll around in the hay. I really hate this; Loras is one of the better characters to me and is motivated totally by love in the books.

Tywin is incongruent on the show. We see him concerned for Arya, making her eat, curious about her upbringing, and last night we see him as 'book Tywin', cold, calculating, imperious. The scene with his kids was awesome, but confusing since TV viewers saw his character differently with his interaction with Arya.

Despite the Talisa angle, I like how Robb is portrayed. Last night, we saw what we as readers know: Robb is good with the battle operations and bad with the politics.

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If he missed on purpose then why would he chase her down? Why not just let her go?

Because if he let her go, she would have told the other wildlings that the Nightswatch was there. He wanted to keep her as a prisoner, and take her to Qhorin. Whom he did not manage to find right afterwards. Now, letting her go, as in the books, THAT was stupid!

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Cellio,

Worked through the night (guh) and all the usual content is now up in the episode guide. And now uploading our video review.

But yeah, I liked it quite a lot except for what was done with Loras, and just how sloppy this whole business was. It felt really rushed. There's some other nitpicks, but on the whole there was a lot to praise in this one, and I consider it the best episode of the season in terms of consistency.

Their failure make anything of the Frey alliance until now, beyond one or two remarks, is weird to me. I don't really understand why they've changed Robb from wanting to go to the North again to deciding to just attack Casterly Rock. What's wrong with the strategic picture in the novels? They even introduced the Reeds, there's no reason to shy away from mentioning how their father will help him get past the Neck and into the North!

That's one thing I'll be asking Bryan about in our interview, which I hope maybe to get up today or maybe tomorrow.

I agree with you on these points! Yet I am still in shock from the episode, I have never gotten that many goosebumps from an episode on the show yet. They really hit my spots with this one. I don't know what you think of the Roose scene with Jaime(will check your review after work today) but I really liked his conversation with Jaime. Here is hoping for the leech scene!

Conor.

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And by the way, only the tent part happened in season 3. All the other things I mentioned happened in season 2!

They would have worked better like the book version. In the book Ygritte was the one who convinced the wildlings to let Jon yield, just because he did the same for her, and he let her go. So makes sense she wants to save his life. She would still be impresed by Jon killing Qhorin if it was the book version.

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They would have worked better like the book version. In the book Ygritte was the one who convinced the wildlings to let Jon yield, just because he did the same for her, and he let her go. So makes sense she wants to save his life. She would still be impresed by Jon killing Qhorin if it was the book version.

Mate, again, he spared her life in the show.

Edited by The Mondrian Oak
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I need to say how much I loved this episode.

Beric/Hound duel- so well done. And Sandor's reactions to the flaming sword, his shield, catching on fire, etc. Fantastic. I actually gasped at that moment when he stepped into that little bit of fire and screamed.

Arya was amazing as always. Happy to see the return of her nightly prayer. The scene with Gendry was heartbreaking.

Jon Snow/Ygritte- Not hugely impressed with this scene. As many others have stated, it felt a bit rushed, but I did get a good laugh out of "You know nothing, Jon Sno--oooh!"

Qyburn- I haven't seen many people commenting on him, but I was hugely impressed. He was amazingly creepy, especially that last look as he's working on Jamie's stump right before Jaime screams.

Selyse- Boy is she batshit crazy... Fetuses in jars? Wow... Also, one of the fetuses being named Edric? Nice little nod there

Shireen is absolutely adorable even with the Greyscale and her creepy singing of Patchface's song. I enjoyed the creepy singing enough to sit through the entirety of the credits for once just to hear it. I'm loving the Shireen/Davos relationship.

Finally getting some Stannis development away from Mel and seeing him interact with his family.

Jamie/Brienne bath scene was absolutely PERFECT. I can't wait to watch this scene with my non-reader friend who hates Jamie with a passion. I want to see if this changes her view at all.

The final scene with Tywin laying down the law and telling his children who they will marry. Fantastic. This is the Tywin I remember from the books. Charles Dance is absolutely killing it. Tyrion's response "I was wed", is a good reminder to the non-readers about Tysha (gods know the book readers can't forget her. Where do whores go?). Surprisingly, I actually had sympathetic feelings for Cersei in this scene when she says "Father, don't make me do it again, please." I typically hate Cersei, but that one line and it's beautiful delivery reminded me forcefully that she'd already been married to a man who didn't love her once, and look how that turned out.

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Then why not just admit that he couldn't kill her? and tell Qhorin? Why not just keep her around like a prisoner instead of failing on purpose?

He did not find the strenght to kill her AFTER he told Qhorin he would do it. He struggled before swinging the sword, hence Ygritte's "Do it! Bastard, do it!" . Jon did not find the strenght, and therefore spared her.

Edited by The Mondrian Oak
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I really do think they're actually merging Shireen and Patchface. A character such as Patches wouldn't translate well into screen, I think, but it makes perfect sense for an unfortunate child such as Shireen to have an amped up creepy factor. I wonder: if Patches is indeed going to have greater importance later on in the books (hinted at by Mel's vision etc) then Shireen may do to in the series, which pleases me. I think I generally like the merging of characters as it's nice to get to see more substantial players and cogs in the tv version.

Someone mentioned Helena Bonham-Carter upthread... wow, she would've been great with ears and mustache but that would make it all too much if they kept the foetus-preserves, which, I agree, will substitute the leeches in Mel's bonfire.

Now I have to go and re-watch the entire thing especially because my grandmother was around during the cave scene. Yup. I had to watch this ep at my parents' with my nana around, and she's not one for this kind of show. It was distracting and I missed out on a few things.

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Because if he let her go, she would have told the other wildlings that the Nightswatch was there. He wanted to keep her as a prisoner, and take her to Qhorin. Whom he did not manage to find right afterwards. Now, letting her go, as in the books, THAT was stupid!

Then why fail on purpose? Why would he gain from "faking" it? Why not just keep her like a prisoner or tell Qhorin that he cannot kill her?

The decision was kind of stupid in the book, but it showed what kind of person is Jon. It also served to make Ygritte want to save Jon's life, and make their bond stronger.

But why would show Ygritte want to save someone who took her captive and is so pathetic that failed killing her?

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oh, and I agree that there is no other way to read Gendry's "m'lady" line than that she'd be his liege, his social superior. it's also quite an important device for her to realize her isolation and the bullshit of social rules more fully building up to added motivation for her embracing the house of b&w as the only viable choice for the moment. they are doing as good a job as they can with the limited time available in the series in terms of believability, by the way. I applaud that.

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Mate, again, he spared her life in the show.

I don't think she believed he spared her life. She had her eyes closed, the she herd a sound but didn't feel anything. When she opened her eyes the sword was in front of her, to her it looked like if he missed. Then she saw her opportunity to scape. In the boks it was OBVIOUS that he let her go.

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