[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

[JMJ]

I just rewatched Robb's beheading of Karstark. It's such a beautifully shot scene. So atmospheric, dark and forboding with the rain pouring down on their heads mirroring the dampening gloom in the hearts of all in those attendance. The close up of Robb as he addresses KS, you can see each drop of water pounding down on his head as though each drop were laden with Karstark's words drilling into his scull. Those drops of water looked as though they weighed a ton. Then the beheading. One swift movement, and then a closeup of Robb's trembling fist, followed by him walking away, angry at the himself and the world.

It was so so beautiful.

Not only that, did you notice he is holding his wrist, like he put so much force into it trying to make sure he cut off Karstark's head in one sweep that he sorta hurt his wrist doing it. Nice reference back to (1) Ned's one sweep execution of the NW deserter, (2) Ilyn Payne's one-sweep of Ned's head, and (3) Theon's hack job on Rodrick Cassell. It's also a small nod to Robb not having a sword made of Valyrian-forged steel.

[timstanton]

I don't disagree, I just liked the way he started out questioning it and then progressed on. You could be right, because of the shock to his mind and body he is just going straight to thinking that. How he has portrayed Jaime has been fantastic, when "complaints" have to be such minor nitpicks it shows how well it is being done.

agree :cheers:

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Nevermind.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Darth Zyroth

[Xasthur]

I'm really suspicous how they build up the Purple Wedding. It CAN'T be in Episode 10 - it just can't.

So Tyrion is arrested directly after the wedding - maybe they stretch that and making Tywin/Cersei research first and then imprison Tyrion?? Because otherwise, Tyrion just rots in the dungeon until he kills Tywin and Shae, and that has to be in Episode 9. If they rush through that in like the middle of Season 4, they introduce Oberyn just to be fodder for the Mountain an episode later - that would be a huge fail having in mind that most TV watchers won't even know who the Martells are.

So my conclusion is that there can't be a Purple Wedding this season. Maybe then they shouldnt build that up so heavily?? Is it just distraction for the Red Wedding which is going to be the peak this season?

[Vegeta_Greyjoy]

Come on I can't be the only one that thinks Stannis farted on Shireen's bed and left in a hurry. That face he made, he looked as guilty as Ser Jorah.

[kli]

Sure somebody's already mentioned this, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread. :)

Missed the one Hedge Knight reference in the Jaime/Brienne bath scene (i.e., "Are you thick as a castle wall?"), but was delighted to find an added one in the Shireen/Davos scene: "it sounds like 'egg'..." I keep wishing they'd do the Dunk & Egg stories as Christmas specials.. :D

Can someone tell me if show-Barristan is telling the truth or lying about not being on Robert's Small Council? We know in the books he was, hence the reveal on Jorah down the line, but I can't remember if Barristan was in the scene back in Season 1 when Robert was ordering Dany's assassination.

[Xasthur]

Can someone tell me if show-Barristan is telling the truth or lying about not being on Robert's Small Council? We know in the books he was, hence the reveal on Jorah down the line, but I can't remember if Barristan was in the scene back in Season 1 when Robert was ordering Dany's assassination.

I was wondering the same. If Barristan really lied to his face so he can keep his little secret about Jorah only to backstab him later, that would be pretty much out of character, wouldn't it?

Edited April 29, 2013 by Xasthur

[Peptalk]

Not only that, did you notice he is holding his wrist, like he put so much force into it trying to make sure he cut off Karstark's head in one sweep that he sorta hurt his wrist doing it. Nice reference back to (1) Ned's one sweep execution of the NW deserter, (2) Ilyn Payne's one-sweep of Ned's head, and (3) Theon's hack job on Rodrick Cassell. It's also a small nod to Robb not having a sword made of Valyrian-forged steel.

I took it as a gesture of anger, anger with Karstark to forcing his hand like that, by killing the Lannister boys. Also, despite all the battles he has been to and watching his father do it plenty times, it still must have been hard for him to do that to a man. Killing a man in a battle is different to beheading a man who doesn't defend himself. I took it as him grabbing his hand to confirm that it still was there and that he really had done just that. That he was losing his composure because he hated having had to do that, and that he was furious for it.

Could definitely be interpreted your way as well though, obviously. That too makes sense.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Peptalk

[OnlineWeAreAllFaceless]

I would agree that there's no way that they can have the Purple Wedding this season unless it is the final scene/episode. They have been talking about it at length in King's Landing, it'll be interesting to see how they stretch it out for the rest of the season. I would assume that it happens at the beginning of next season.

As for this episode, I'm a huge fan!

Liked: Bath scene was perfect, NCW is absolutely killing it. Also loved how Roose Bolton toyed with Jaime by saying "you're sister, you're sister, etc." That was very well done and just like in the books where Roose implies that he knows about Jaime and Cersei.

-I liked the Shireen/Selyse stuff. I think they accurately portrayed Selyse as the nutjob she is..my friend who is a non-reader got that impression.

-The Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei scene at the end was fantastic as well. Peter Dinklage with some fantastic acting, and I think the most spot on portrayal of a character has been Cersei. Lena Headey has portrayed Cersei flawlessly.

-Beric/Hound scene was good. I'm glad they picked up with that as the opening scene this week.

-Robb beheading of Karstark and his conversations prior to it were just about identical to the book. Well done.

-Credits with patchface song was AWESOME!!

Whatever:

-Jon Snow/Ygritte. I think that the scene was well written, however I'm just not a fan of the Jon Snow actor and I can't get past it. He seems too emo to me in his portrayal of Jon, who is way more badass in the books. HOWEVER, I do think Ygritte is doing a great job in her portrayal. She's great.

-Loras/Littlefinger stuff: Not really sure what to think of all of this

-Robb with Talisa: They certainly started to set up the RW, but if Talisa does end up being a spy I don't think I will like that.

Didn't dislike anything. Great episode, great show, genius story.

[Red Knight]

episodes seem to be getting better and better, nice work

[CrypticWeirwood]

[Cersei] shouldn't be obliged to have his children if she doesn't want to, even if she is the queen, especially since it was probably her father, not her, who decided that she should be queen.

Of course she should. That’s how these societies work. Within the context of her society, there is no question of her utter and complete duty here, which she treasonously dodged.

Whether it can be morally justified is a different question altgether. But you are reading this with a modern’s eye, and that is not workable in understanding a different society’s accepted duties and debts within that society.

[Vegeta_Greyjoy]

Sure somebody's already mentioned this, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread. :)

Missed the one Hedge Knight reference in the Jaime/Brienne bath scene (i.e., "Are you thick as a castle wall?"), but was delighted to find an added one in the Shireen/Davos scene: "it sounds like 'egg'..." I keep wishing they'd do the Dunk & Egg stories as Christmas specials.. :D

Can someone tell me if show-Barristan is telling the truth or lying about not being on Robert's Small Council? We know in the books he was, hence the reveal on Jorah down the line, but I can't remember if Barristan was in the scene back in Season 1 when Robert was ordering Dany's assassination.

Confirmed. I just re-watched season 1 episode 5. Small council consists of: Varys, Pycelle, Little Finger, Renley, Robert & Ned. No guards.

[shiola]

I only just saw the episode. What the FUCK is up with Selyse's collection of stillborns? Was that in the books?

[SerArthurHeath]

I would agree that there's no way that they can have the Purple Wedding this season unless it is the final scene/episode. They have been talking about it at length in King's Landing, it'll be interesting to see how they stretch it out for the rest of the season. I would assume that it happens at the beginning of next season.

As for this episode, I'm a huge fan!

Liked: Bath scene was perfect, NCW is absolutely killing it. Also loved how Roose Bolton toyed with Jaime by saying "you're sister, you're sister, etc." That was very well done and just like in the books where Roose implies that he knows about Jaime and Cersei.

-I liked the Shireen/Selyse stuff. I think they accurately portrayed Selyse as the nutjob she is..my friend who is a non-reader got that impression.

-The Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei scene at the end was fantastic as well. Peter Dinklage with some fantastic acting, and I think the most spot on portrayal of a character has been Cersei. Lena Headey has portrayed Cersei flawlessly.

-Beric/Hound scene was good. I'm glad they picked up with that as the opening scene this week.

-Robb beheading of Karstark and his conversations prior to it were just about identical to the book. Well done.

-Credits with patchface song was AWESOME!!

Whatever:

-Jon Snow/Ygritte. I think that the scene was well written, however I'm just not a fan of the Jon Snow actor and I can't get past it. He seems too emo to me in his portrayal of Jon, who is way more badass in the books. HOWEVER, I do think Ygritte is doing a great job in her portrayal. She's great.

-Loras/Littlefinger stuff: Not really sure what to think of all of this

-Robb with Talisa: They certainly started to set up the RW, but if Talisa does end up being a spy I don't think I will like that.

Didn't dislike anything. Great episode, great show, genius story.

Each to their own, but emo pretty much sums up Jon to me until he gets back to the Wall (even then it barely diminishes) so I'm fine with this portrayal of him

[Silverx2]

awesome episode

• Maise absolutely killed it. every scene, every line. If she doesnt get at least a nomination for an emmy this year something is seriously wrong
  
• Shireen. Adoable.
  
• Stannis Hard sour shell, Soft gooey center. excellent
  
• Robb, Dark, angry, at the end of his rope. brilliant
  
• all the counter plotting amazballs
  
• rose leslie kissed by fire and cut from stone
  
• Jamies monologue even better in video form
  
• the end credits song, so much better then the punk rock bear and the maiden fair
  
• MAISE holy christ girl putting on a clinic
  
• Thoros and arya chat was great.
  
• Sandor and Berics fight
  
• this episode felt like an hour and a half not 55 minutes
  

LOVED it 10/10 would watch again

[Lady Arwen]

They did a marvelous job with this episode, in spite of there being a relative lack of action (with the exception of the Hound/Beric scene). Even those long exposition scenes that could have been dreadfully boring were executed beautifully. NCW in particular with that long Jaime/Aerys narrative...just brilliant.

[Druze]

Btw that beauty clocked in at an awesome runtime of 59 minutes!

[Currawong]

He did shy away now and then and reacted to it when the sword lit up initially though? I thought his fear for fire came through.

I agree - I thought he did a wonderful job, showing fear and terror through his eyes and facial expression, yet then giving us a man who somehow found the strength to overcome those fears and fight. He had run away at Blackwater, but here he was going to confront those fears, stand and fight. And this was a far more personal fight than the generic Lannister vs Stannis fight at Blackwater.

I only just saw the episode. What the FUCK is up with Selyse's collection of stillborns? Was that in the books?

I suggest you go onto the HBO site and read Bryan Cogman's interview about this episode, and you will see his explanation. The jars made perfect sense to me even before I read what he had to say. Edited April 29, 2013 by Currawong

[kli]

Confirmed. I just re-watched season 1 episode 5. Small council consists of: Varys, Pycelle, Little Finger, Renley, Robert & Ned. No guards.

Thanks. Guess word will have to come from Varys somehow.

BTW. Cogman interview here: http://www.hbo.com/#/game-of-thrones/episodes/3/25-kissed-by-fire/interview/bryan-cogman.html

Edited April 30, 2013 by kli

[Valonqar_]

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Why on earth did they cast a blonde girl as Shireen and didn't dye her hair? Doesn't it completely undermine the already tenious evidence as to why Cersei's children may be bastards and make Stannis even more of a hypocrite than he is in the books?

And those babies in jars were not only seriously gross, but some of them were far too large to be newborns.... More like 3-4 year-olds, what's the deal with that?

I really don't understand their choices re: hair color with Baratheons and Lannisters, given that it is such crucial part of the plot. I mean, Robert wasn't that much darker than Jaime and one could certainly imagine that at least Tommen's hair may have darkened to his color in time. Renly and Stannis also weren't dark enough. Tyrion is too dark. Now, Shireen is blonde? Why do they carelessly slaughter one of the more important plot elements in the series?

The problem is also that her parent´s do both have dark hair. I think I already said that in this thread, but I think it might be some greyscale-related discoloration.