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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

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As each episode goes by, Catelyn and Stannis are being presented less accurately :thumbsdown:, Though I did like him with Shireen, but Im not sure if its just because I think they did a great job with her. And of course too much Talisa :bang: :bang: :bang:

Beric and Sandor was good. And they nailed Shireen. Jaime and Brienne was good as well. Tywin, Cersei, and Tyrion was probably the best scene.

Why does it seem like they forgot about the Ironborn?

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Slight worry though; Shireen Baratheon, trueborn as she is, had blond hair. I repeat: blond Baratheon. What's up with that?

Jaimes been busy in Dragonstone??

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Did Loras' new lover really say he was Polliver? I must have misunderstood.

No, his name is Olyvar. Which sounds very similar. I admit I thought I heard Polliver as well on the show. Really, they change Asha to Yara, but they decide to randomly name the new guy a name that will sound close to a character that will show up again next season?

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Littlefinger w/ Sansa, creepier than the fetuses, we call him Pedo-Baelish

I call show!LF Middlefinger or Pedofinger. Yeah he is very creepy, and he thinks he is Christian Bale playing Batman and tries to use that voice.......

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Something I really want to say is how happy I was when they showed the Ned and Robert scene.

Ant it also sad seeing how everything went downhill after their deaths :frown5: :frown5: :frown5:

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Where is the moral problem of mutual incestuous love? And besides, nobody complains about Loras, a Kingsguard who was having sex with the King, his brother-in-law.

What Loras and Renly were doing was just as wrong. Well, I take that back... at least there was no incest/possibility of bastard children involved. Despite what the Targaryens were known to do, Westeros, thought incest a great sin.

Honestly, if you really think about it, their incestual love is the butterfly that caused all of the events in this series to unfold. It's the reason Bran was crippled. It's the reason Stannis and Renly rebelled. It's the reason Ned was taken prisoner and beheaded, it's the reason the Lannisters and the North went to war, etc.

Honestly, their incestual love is the primary reason for all of the horrors that befell Westeros during the telling of ASoIaF.

But Jaime's just so darned lovable!! :bs:

Edited by Versiroth

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The Robb/Cat storyline is still really messy. Cat's once again reduced to a background character so that Strong Female Character™ Talisa and Robb can have more screentime. But the writing is all over the place too - how has Robb lost half his army with the Karstarks? Why did no one comment on the Freys leaving his army, when in season one it was revealed that they would provide soldiers? Why has no one in King's Landing discussed Robb's wedding yet?

Oh Cat. They already ruined her character, and if they mess the Red Wedding I might really be done with the show.

Yeah the Northern storyline hasnt been looking good for a while now.

I have to say though that I enjoyed Karstarks rampage. I can see why they introduced the Lannister kids in an earlier episode.

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Honestly, if you really think about it, their incestual love is the butterfly that caused all of the evens in this series to unfold. It's the reason Bran was crippled. It's the reason Stannis and Renly rebelled. It's the reason Ned was taken prisoner and beheaded, it's the reason the Lannisters and the North went to war, etc.

Honestly, their incestual love is the primary reason for all of the horrors that befell Westeros during the telling of ASoIaF.

Yeah, sure.. That's just like blaming Catelyn for everything that happened.

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Yeah, sure.. That's just like blaming Catelyn for everything that happened.

Her capturing Tyrion caused the Lannisters to go to war, but why did she capture him again? Oh yeah, because Cersei imprisoned Ned. Why did she do that again? Oh yeah, because he found out about her incestual relationship with Jaime/her bastard children.

Jaime's inability to keep it in his pants is the base reason for everything that's happened so far. If he'd have kept it in his pants, then the realm would currently be united under Robert's trueborn Son Joffrey to help the Nights Watch defeat the the Whitewalkers.

Edited by Versiroth

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Yeah, I forgot to mention the fact that he was a Kingsguard who was having sex with the Queen..... his twin sister! Yep, you guys are right... he's just SooOOooo lovable! :bang:

:)

I get so sick of people using that as an argument to enhance that Jaime is an asshole - it's irrelevant to the discussion. People use it as an argument because they think it's nasty (and yes, it is), but it's not being an asshole. What he did to Bran was being an asshole. Screwing Cersei isn't. It would be if Robert had been faithful to her, but he slept with dozens of other women. That the incest is the "cause of the war" I just don't buy; in that case you have to go back to what caused them to sleep with one another, and what caused that to cause that before that, and before that, and before that. Action is the result of an immediate response to an event and continuous choices made by several people after that. The blame is never on a single person - in that case we might as well say that Cat's decision to capture Tyrion because she suspected him to have made the attempt on Bran's life was the "cause of the war".

Also, pushing Bran is the single truly despicable thing Jaime has ever done along with that of killing the prisoner in order to escape. I don't get the hate. Whatever he did in the past will never be justified regardless of what he does in the future, but that some people can't stop hating him and try to look past his errors even after he's showing that he wants to become the man he initially intended to be, and is starting to become that man, just strikes me as narrow-minded. Where is the ability to forgive and look forward? Nothing is ever black or white, least of all people, and it's a pity that some people look at it that way. I pity those that do. And before someone mentions the trebuchet again: it was a trick he pulled knowing Edmure would fold and give up Riverrun at the mere threat of killing that baby, so no, he didn't actually intend to kill the baby.

Edited by Peptalk

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It made for an incredibly powerful scene but I couldn't help thinking "this is Theon's theme...". A more soaring and dark variation of the Stark/Winterfell theme would've been nice.

Agreed, some more discordant version of 'Kill Them All' would have done it.

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Her capturing Tyrion caused the Lannisters to go to war, but why did she capture him again? Oh yeah, because Cersei imprisoned Ned. Why did she do that again? Oh yea, because he found out about her incestual relationship with Jaime/her bastard children.

When Cat captured Tyrion, Ned was not imprisoned yet. Cat captured Tyrion because she believed in what Petyr said, that the dagger was Tyrion's.

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Really sad we didn't get the line from the Hound before the duel with Beric about the cave being dark but him being the terror there.

It was strange how Robb acted like the Freys have been neutral in the war this whole time. Just a mention about how Robb would try to get the Frey troops BACK after they deserted when Robb married Talisa would have sufficed. Maybe this will be explained in the upcoming episodes.

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I think Davo's dungeon must be one of the nicest I ever saw. Well lit, cosy, warm, nice goaler, he looks well fed and clean, well-groomed, his clothes look clean too. The service must be great. One might be forgiven for thinking that he was just having a nice rest. I'm surprised they don't charge him rent.

I love the ending scene, Cersei went to laugh at Tyrion and never saw it coming to her too. So damn satisfying.

I love Jamie.

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I get so sick of people using that as an argument to enhance that Jaime is an asshole - it's irrelevant to the discussion. People use it as an argument because they think it's nasty (and yes, it is), but it's not being an asshole. What he did to Bran was being an asshole. Screwing Cersei isn't. It would be if Robert had been faithful to her, but he slept with dozens of other women. That the incest is the "cause of the war" I just don't buy; in that case you have to go back to what caused them to sleep with one another, and what caused that to cause that before that, and before that, and before that. Action is the result of an immediate response to an event and continuous choices made by several people after that. The blame is never on a single person - in that case we might as well say that Cat's decision to capture Tyrion because she suspected him to have made the attempt on Bran's life was the "cause of the war".

Also, pushing Bran is the single truly despicable thing Jaime has ever done along with that of killing the prisoner in order to escape. I don't get the hate. Whatever he did in the past will never be justified regardless of what he does in the future, but that some people can't stop hating him and try to look past his errors even after he's showing that he wants to become the man he initially intended to be, and is starting to become that man, just strikes me as narrow-minded. Where is the ability to forgive and look forward? Nothing is ever black or white, least of all people, and it's a pity that some people look at it that way. I pity those that do. And before someone mentions the trebuchet again: it was a trick he pulled knowing Edmure would fold and give up Riverrun at the mere threat of killing that baby, so no, he didn't actually intend to kill the baby.

Nothing forced them to sleep with one another. They had those feelings even when they were little as described by Cersei in the books. Without their incest, nothing else that happens in the books would have happened. It was the first proverbial domino. And to say those that dislike Jaime are narrow minded is you being a little narrow minded yourself. Honestly, if I knew any child murders in RL, I don't think they'd ever be able to make it up in life either. And you can't say that he's not a child murder just because Bran lived. He had every intention for him to die in that fall.

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Her capturing Tyrion caused the Lannisters to go to war, but why did she capture him again? Oh yeah, because Cersei imprisoned Ned. Why did she do that again? Oh yeah, because he found out about her incestual relationship with Jaime/her bastard children.

Jaime's inability to keep it in his pants is the base reason for everything that's happened so far. If he'd have kept it in his pants, then the realm would currently be united under Robert's trueborn Son Joffrey to help the Nights Watch defeat the the Whitewalkers.

And if Cat had been smart about it and not charged him the way she did without proper proof, Jaime wouldn't have struck Ned down in King's Landing to make a point, and if Ned hadn't challenged Joffrey's right to the throne he wouldn't have been betrayed and sentenced to death and later beheaded, and if Ned hadn't been beheaded Robb wouldn't have marched on King's Landing.

And if Tywin and Joanna had separated them earlier and brought them up better, it wouldn't have happened either. And if whatever caused them not to hinder their incest in an early stage hadn't happened, it wouldn't have led to the war either. Bla bla bla.

Just sayin'. The war is the result of multiple actions by multiple people.

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Jaime's inability to keep it in his pants is the base reason for everything that's happened so far. If he'd have kept it in his pants, then the realm would currently be united under Robert's trueborn Son Joffrey to help the Nights Watch defeat the the Whitewalkers.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

First Cersei wanted to cheat on Robert because Robert was an asshole with her. If Robert would have been a better husband maybe she wouldn't have cheated on him.

Second I don't think Robert would give a fuck about the Night's Watch and the Others. Many people don't believe they exist.

Third Robert and Cersei are both terrible parents, even if they would have had a trueborn child, he would be fucked up.

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LF was the one planning the war. He took advantage of their incest, and helped Jon and Ned to discover it. He blamed Tyrion for Bran's murder attempt and I still think he might have influenced Loras to convince Renly. (I think that, at least in the books, he works closer with the Tyrells.

ETA: And, while trying to murder Bran was wrong in spite of everything, I don't think Robert would have let their children live, either.

Edited by Valonqar_

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