[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

[lostinwesteros]

I'm still not sure whether Talisa will survive the Red Wedding, or if she'll escape with the Blackfish...

It just dawned on me that Blackfish does survive - Jaime encounters him later (or almost does) during AFFC - had forgotten all about that, as well as the thought that he jumped into the river with Jeyne and they escaped.

However, as I cannot stand Talisa, the idea of her being a spy is almost as attractive to me (character assassination) as that she is killed, ax to the belly as someone in another thread speculated. Either way, I'm ready to be rid of her.

[Conchobar]

It just dawned on me that Blackfish does survive - Jaime encounters him later (or almost does) during AFFC - had forgotten all about that, as well as the thought that he jumped into the river with Jeyne and they escaped.

However, as I cannot stand Talisa, the idea of her being a spy is almost as attractive to me (character assassination) as that she is killed, ax to the belly as someone in another thread speculated. Either way, I'm ready to be rid of her.

The Blackfish never went to the Red Wedding in the books.

[superdeluxe]

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is a spy.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

She's either going to die, or she's going to somehow escape back to Riverrun with the Blackfish to reset to the book narrative, or she'll be taken prisoner there and used against her will by the Lannisters and Boltons to solidify Ramsay's claim to the North since the show does not have a Jeyne Poole character to use (so no fake Arya is needed, only the Lady of Winterfell who is carrying the heir).

Those are the three options. Talisa ripping off her dress to reveal a "Team Lannister" t-shirt underneath is not going to happen. It's stupid, dumb and I have less respect for the fans who have the naivety to swallow this tripe.

Not that I disagree, but what are your reasons why the Lannister Spy angle should be discounted?

For those that say Talisa is lying about being pregnant, why would she do that? Unless she is mind screwing Robb, I see no point.

[King Tommen]

Not that I disagree, but what are your reasons why the Lannister Spy angle should be discounted?

For those that say Talisa is lying about being pregnant, why would she do that? Unless she is mind screwing Robb, I see no point.

The reasons are countless and hard to list in full here. But suffice to say, this "theory" is essentially borne from next to no evidence the show has given us and based almost exclusively on book-reader's perception that Robb's wife in the books was on the Lannister side so this character must be as well. They have taken that conclusion and worked backward to try and make this theory plausible, regardless of how little evidence there is to support it. And once you believe the conclusion, then it's very easy for you to see things to back it up even when that's not what's happening at all.

I'm not even sure exactly what I'm supposed to be assuming with this theory as no one has laid it out in its entirety (mostly because it falls apart as soon as you do I suppose):

Is she supposed to be Jenye Westerling undercover?

Is she a spy posing as a nurse from Volantis who falls in love with her mark?

Is she some devious vengeful woman (motivation pending) who has decided to fall in with Tywin to provide the maximum amount of misery to the Starks by making Robb happy and lying to him about being pregnant just so she can troll him and spit in his face before he's killed?

None of these characterizations fit the puzzle at all and it should be noted that this theory is coming almost exclusively from a handful of book readers which means that the show has done a terrible job of foreshadowing why this could be plausible to its audience.

The only thing on the show that you could possibly use as evidence is the fact that Tywin in S2 got a letter talking about where Robb's army was off to and then there's been a scene here and there where Talisa is shown writing letters. That's it. And if that's all you've got, that's just flimsy. My perception of Tywin's updates were that they were from scouts, not spies (a common practice in warfare). And Talisa is from Volantis so she is writing home (which she confirmed recently). These are things that are fairly obvious but can certainly be twisted by those who want to fit scenes into a narrative they've decided is true.

I could go on in detail with many of the different aspects of the theory that hold absolutely no water and if anyone wants to try, I'll be happy to blow a hole in those specific notions. Tell me which one of the three scenarios I listed is the one you believe to be true and I'll tell you exactly why that cannot be.

[lunadangelo]

I would quite like Talisa to survive and love the suggestion made by somebody above (sorry, I can't find you again) that she releases Grey Wind, gets shot in the shoulder as she dives into the river. It would sort of reconnect with the Jeyne's story and would leave those of us who like to speculate, able to continue to do so.

[Raven's Teeth]

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is a spy.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

She's either going to die, or she's going to somehow escape back to Riverrun with the Blackfish to reset to the book narrative, or she'll be taken prisoner there and used against her will by the Lannisters and Boltons to solidify Ramsay's claim to the North since the show does not have a Jeyne Poole character to use (so no fake Arya is needed, only the Lady of Winterfell who is carrying the heir).

Those are the three options. Talisa ripping off her dress to reveal a "Team Lannister" t-shirt underneath is not going to happen. It's stupid, dumb and I have less respect for the fans who have the naivety to swallow this tripe.

Agree

[qixoticneurotic]

I think her being pregnant means shes going to replace fake arya/jeyne pool as the betrothed of ramsey Bolton. it makes the faction more believable with the heir to winterfell.

[Jon Black]

I think if the Jeyne-swap theory was true they would have kept Talisa at Riverrun in the same way Jeyne stayed there. Her being at the RW I think confirms her death.

...and this would possibly tell us a bit about the books and the Robb's heir theory (or lack thereof)..

[King Tommen]

I think whether Talisa dies or not at the RW will be contingent on Blackfish's presence there. If he's at the RW as well, the odds of him being ordered by Robb before dying to escape with Talisa (and his unborn child) go up exponentially. This would reset the storyline to the books (with both the Blackfish and Talisa at Riverrun albeit with the knowledge that she's definitely pregnant).

I don't know if the Blackfish will be at the RW for sure but he was definitely on the road with the gang to the Twins the last time we saw them. I really don't think they'd kill both Talisa and the Blackfish (especially since it seems as if he would still have a role to play later on).

[Dysun]

I think Talisa is dead, that shot of her at the RW in one of the trailers shows she is present. Her little speech about Volantis and her pregnancy is just building her up to die a tragic death.

Blackfish is where it gets mysterious, he wasn't in the trailers that showed the RW so it's possible Robb orders him somewhere before they arrive at the Twins. I'm hoping for the will as a fan of King Jon Stark

[adeadhand]

I think she's a spy and I'm afraid she's going to ruin the RW somehow. Hopefully, she reveals her betrayal and dies anyways. Cat killing her instead of Jingle Bells would be high drama.

Also, there's a very good chance that the Blackfish escapes the Twins the same way he escaped Riverrun in the book and they just nix that whole scene.

[King Tommen]

I think she's a spy and I'm afraid she's going to ruin the RW somehow. Hopefully, she reveals her betrayal and dies anyways. Cat killing her instead of Jingle Bells would be high drama.

Also, there's a very good chance that the Blackfish escapes the Twins the same way he escaped Riverrun in the book and they just nix that whole scene.

Please explain your reasoning as to how Talisa could possibly be a spy....

[superdeluxe]

Not sure why everyone thinks talisa at RW = spy or dead?

Very possible that she gets sick during festivities, Robb asks BF to escort Talisa to her quarters and then RW happens and BF gets her out of there.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Please explain your reasoning as to how Talisa could possibly be a spy....

I think the entire basis of the spy argument is that she's always writing letters and Jeyne Westerling was sort of an unknowing spy in the books. Then sprinkle in a little familiarity with Westerosi culture that she should otherwise not know and that's the theory.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is a spy.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

She's either going to die, or she's going to somehow escape back to Riverrun with the Blackfish to reset to the book narrative, or she'll be taken prisoner there and used against her will by the Lannisters and Boltons to solidify Ramsay's claim to the North since the show does not have a Jeyne Poole character to use (so no fake Arya is needed, only the Lady of Winterfell who is carrying the heir).

Those are the three options. Talisa ripping off her dress to reveal a "Team Lannister" t-shirt underneath is not going to happen. It's stupid, dumb and I have less respect for the fans who have the naivety to swallow this tripe.

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is going to be married off to Ramsay in some fake Arya/wife of Robb Stark scenario.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

[King Tommen]

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is going to be married off to Ramsay in some fake Arya/wife of Robb Stark scenario.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

Clever.

It's certainly the least likely of the three possible scenarios. That being said, it's about 1000x more likely of taking place than Talisa having a Faceless-man level of undercover work to be able to screw over a guy she marries and gets knocked up by.

[TomBadgerlock]

One of the best things that will come out of E9 being finally aired is that it will put to bed the endless bandwith that has been devoted to the terrible, useless not well though out theory that Talisa is a spy.

I will be so so happy when I never have to hear this garbage again.

She's either going to die, or she's going to somehow escape back to Riverrun with the Blackfish to reset to the book narrative, or she'll be taken prisoner there and used against her will by the Lannisters and Boltons to solidify Ramsay's claim to the North since the show does not have a Jeyne Poole character to use (so no fake Arya is needed, only the Lady of Winterfell who is carrying the heir).

Those are the three options. Talisa ripping off her dress to reveal a "Team Lannister" t-shirt underneath is not going to happen. It's stupid, dumb and I have less respect for the fans who have the naivety to swallow this tripe.

This exactly.

- this interview with Oona Chaplain may be of interest to some people.

[go joff go]

It may not make a good story but I think its dishonest to say there aren't clues whether imagined or real that can allow one to come to the conclusion that Talisa is a spy- esp considering her book relative DID have a role in the RW. The truth is if you had no knowledge of the book alot of the crazy things that happen would sound nuts said outloud. I mean if someone put the LF plot out there based on the clues that have been left people would say its contrived.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Yeah, the spy theory is just... That (not) said, I have no idea what they'll do with Talisa, but of all the options, her being a spy would be the absolute worst. It's baffling that some people think this development would "save her character", simply because they aren't a fan of how this particular story line has been adapted. I've made no attempt to hide my complete apathy for Jeyne Westerling - as a character, obviously - and have also made no attempt to hide that I think Talisa is an improvement over her book counterpart. And honestly, she's had a lot of nice moments this season, so I'm still happy with how she's worked out. I'm hoping she survives the Red Wedding, personally. That seems like a more interesting route to take than her being killed at the wedding (and if Catelyn kills Talisa instead of some random Frey, as some have been proposing, I'm not going to be a happy camper), especially since the revelation that she's pregnant could lead to some interesting story moments down the road. But then again, I also want to see Robb legitimize Jon Snow... I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive, and it's a little late in the game for Robb to be naming heirs (although it could be a reverse psychology kind of thing...), but we'll see how it plays out. In any case, Talisa being a spy makes no sense.

[King Tommen]

This exactly.

- this interview with Oona Chaplain may be of interest to some people.

Check out that interviewer trying to ask about 10 different ways if she was going to last this season. It must absolutely suck to have to answer questions which you know are almost certainly going to give away spoilers unless you say "I can't tell you that...". Especially when the interviewer clearly has read the books and wants you to screw yourself over with one of your answers.