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Aarnikotka

[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

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I would love for the spy theory to come to fruition, if only because it would mean D&D had enough forethought to aim for their own unique, ~dramatic~ twist on Robb's storyline.

Unfortunately, 10-to-1, it's just poor writing. Sorry, kids.

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I was thinking yes sh'es definitely a spy and then watching the Roose Change Youtube video solidified the theory for me.

Then my friend went on saying 'isn't Roose the spy?'.... Yes actually, yes.

But i just had another thought...

Roose only started losing faith in 'the cause' when Robb married Talisa.

GOD i'M CONFUSED. I DESPERATELY NEED TO KNOW. GET ME OUT OF MY MISERY.

Whatchoo mean by the Roose change Youtube video?

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I was thinking yes sh'es definitely a spy and then watching the Roose Change Youtube video solidified the theory for me.

That video...was surprisingly convincing.

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Huh I hadn't read that post last year but it's nice to see all of the inconsistencies actually mentioned. Some I hadn't thought as in detail about as what was listed but I have to say I agree with all of that. Even though I hate the spy theory and will find it to only make the arc more cheesy, it's the only thing that could make even a little sense. But even if she's a spy, the question remains who went around protecting her (before she cozys up to Robb) and keeps her safe from harm and rape? So many plot holes.. I honestly don't see how people think she's a better character.. Yes Jeyne isn't deep or more fleshed out, but it doesn't seem there's nearly as many plot holes with her story as there is with Talisa. But then again we have a great writer, Martin, who wrote the books and D&D who make their own arc that just.. isn't.. good. So yeah obviously there would be less plot holes with Jeyne.

Thanks for posting that, people will probably just ignore it but at least posts like this are out there for people to see how bad the show arc was written. The Starks seem to get the shaft. Only Arya has a semi decent storyline.

I will hate it if they make Talisa a spy because it makes Robb into a total loser/chump who throws everything away on a lie.

But, her being a spy would eliminate the numerous logic holes that currently exist...why hasnt' she been raped [because she's a spy and was only put on the battlefield when Robb arrived], where is she getting money to live [Tywin Lannister], why is she writing her family who she abandoned [she isn't], why is she so uncharacterisitcally forward [its her mission to get to Robb, she needed a quick way to get him interested], why is she traveling unescorted [she isn't, she only arrived when Robb did].

Neither choice is very good for the show in my view, Talisa as a spy makes Robb Stark into a fool and Talisa as a random foreign nurse makes her character and storyline wholly unrealistic for the setting.

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I think its alright if they make Robb Stark into a fool. He is already pretty much that.

Example- the whole Karstark affair. Don't get me wrong, RK was a despicable murderer and totally got what he deserved but the situation is quite different from the books. The Karstarks make up nearly half of his army. maybe he should have thought about that a little bit.

Ditto his foolhardy plan to attack CR.

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If I was Robb I would not have called myself King first off, I would have allied with Renly or Stannis and won the war.

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I will hate it if they make Talisa a spy because it makes Robb into a total loser/chump who throws everything away on a lie.

But, her being a spy would eliminate the numerous logic holes that currently exist...why hasnt' she been raped [because she's a spy and was only put on the battlefield when Robb arrived], where is she getting money to live [Tywin Lannister], why is she writing her family who she abandoned [she isn't], why is she so uncharacterisitcally forward [its her mission to get to Robb, she needed a quick way to get him interested], why is she traveling unescorted [she isn't, she only arrived when Robb did].

Neither choice is very good for the show in my view, Talisa as a spy makes Robb Stark into a fool and Talisa as a random foreign nurse makes her character and storyline wholly unrealistic for the setting.

How would that explain her not being harmed or raped though? Granted I'm sure if Roose did change sides before the marriage then he could have made sure, but many people book/and show wise all think he doesn't switch until after the marriage. But I guess it could be explained that someone was undercover and with her protecting her, but it seems odd they're never shown. (The one riding the cart is only for a split second but it's never explained who that person is or anything.) I know people could come up with a number of things but its still a huge plot hole seeing as its never actually explained.. And I don't see how she knew exactly where Robb would be and decide 'oh I'll chop off this guys leg to get him to notice me'. And also the back talking in the first scene, from season one Robb doesn't look the time to put up with anyone back talking him (though I doubt he would have hit her or anything of the sort) but he doesn't seem to care she is..

I agree the spy theory makes a tiny bit more sense but at the same time there's still some holes no matter what route the writers take. Talisa just looks an even stupider idiot (I don't know where Winterfell is) if she is a spy and the very first thing she does is back sass and belittle a king. It's like.. really are you that much of an idiot? So I'd rather her not be a spy (because she looks like an idiot in the beginning and Robb looks like an even bigger idiot for marrying her) and it just turns out the writers aren't good with writing arcs that go completely away from the book. I also think it would make Tywin look more 'lucky' than in the books where people think Sibil was in on it right from the get go and knew Robb would get wounded at the Craig and all those things that Tywin couldn't possibly have foreseen.

Honestly though I don't care about her character or arc anymore at this point. I hope she isn't a spy though and goes out Dacey Mormony style and we get Robb's grief about his wife right before he's killed. (Wouldn't it be awesome if he went out fighting like Sean Bean did in LotR? I know, unrealistic but it would still be cool and a weird coincidence.)

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Well, there is no way to really salvage the "Talisa" debacle they created for themselves no matter what they do with spy or not a spy, but 'spy' does eliminate some of the most obvious WTF gaping holes just in terms of how she would be able to galavant all over a war zone by herself, have money to do so, and not get taken prisoner or be attacked in any way.

But there is no way to fix the storyline because the foreign nurse angle was so brutally stupid and poorly executed to begin with, and as you say, she goes from seemingly having a lot of knowledge of the war in the beginning on why its being fought to 'oh, where is Winterfell again'

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Well, there is no way to really salvage the "Talisa" debacle they created for themselves no matter what they do with spy or not a spy, but 'spy' does eliminate some of the most obvious WTF gaping holes just in terms of how she would be able to galavant all over a war zone by herself, have money to do so, and not get taken prisoner or be attacked in any way.

But there is no way to fix the storyline because the foreign nurse angle was so brutally stupid and poorly executed to begin with, and as you say, she goes from seemingly having a lot of knowledge of the war in the beginning on why its being fought to 'oh, where is Winterfell again'

:agree:

Though with her back talking, a secret protector can't do much...

There really isn't anything they can do to make it better. Personally I think the spy theory would be incredibly cheesy if they go with it even though it would clear up a few major plot holes.

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I'm sorry. I missed the part of ASOIAF where it was explained that every female that wasn't walking around under armed guard was raped relentlessly by any male within arm's length because they were all barbarians with no self control. Why would you even require whore houses if all you needed to do was grab the closest random girl and rape her whenever you wanted to?

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I'm sorry. I missed the part of ASOIAF where it was explained that every female that wasn't walking around under armed guard was raped relentlessly by any male within arm's length because they were all barbarians with no self control. Why would you even require whore houses if all you needed to do was grab the closest random girl and rape her whenever you wanted to?

Again taking what I said far out of context. War time it seems more likely rape would happen. (Sansa and Breenie almost happening as an example).

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:agree:

Though with her back talking, a secret protector can't do much...

There really isn't anything they can do to make it better. Personally I think the spy theory would be incredibly cheesy if they go with it even though it would clear up a few major plot holes.

Yes, it would be cheesy and turn Robb into a COMPLETE fool who threw it all away not for love but on a lie, I doubt they make her into a spy, but at this point having lost a lot of confidence in D&D, its possible they would see it as a compromise w/the book story...since the Spicers/Westerlings were spies...it would be a a really strange decision, but then the changes to Quarth were sort of strange as well.

I tend to think they think/thought the love story would work and so I lean toward her dying at the RW along w/everyone else.

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I'm sorry. I missed the part of ASOIAF where it was explained that every female that wasn't walking around under armed guard was raped relentlessly by any male within arm's length because they were all barbarians with no self control. Why would you even require whore houses if all you needed to do was grab the closest random girl and rape her whenever you wanted to?

It is not realistic that an unescorted noblewoman would be able to travel around Westeros during a war, with no guards, not being a member of a religious order or any other recognized order in Westeros BY HERSELF and not be harmed/raped/take prisoner.

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Again taking what I said far out of context. War time it seems more likely rape would happen. (Sansa and Breenie almost happening as an example).

Brienne was a prisoner and Sansa was captured during a riot by a bunch of smallfolk thieves. Talisa is working with the armies to tend to their wounded (just as the Silent Sisters do). She's part of the entourage the same way the cooks, musicians and stewards are. There's an implied level of protection to all of those individuals because they're providing service to the soldiers. I don't understand why there's some kind of imminent risk of getting raped in that role.

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It is not realistic that an unescorted noblewoman would be able to travel around Westeros during a war, with no guards, not being a member of a religious order or any other recognized order in Westeros BY HERSELF and not be harmed/raped/take prisoner.

We have not been given any details about how she ended up where she is so that assumption isn't very accurate. I imagine the implication is that she's in the Essos/Westeros version of the "Foreign Legion" where she has travelled abroad to provide this kind of service which would be like a branch of the Silent Sisters or something. There would be some kind of network in place to allow people to do this safely where there was an organized effort to bring in these types of nurses and healers because they would be in high demand during wartime.

Do you think she walked off a boat from Volantis by herself and wandered aimlessly onto a battlefield to start healing people? I don't need everything spelled out for me but if she's a nurse on the battlefield, I think the assumption is that she's working within some kind of organized group to provide nursing aid to the war effort.

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We have not been given any details about how she ended up where she is so that assumption isn't very accurate. I imagine the implication is that she's in the Essos/Westeros version of the "Foreign Legion" where she has travelled abroad to provide this kind of service which would be like a branch of the Silent Sisters or something. There would be some kind of network in place to allow people to do this safely where there was an organized effort to bring in these types of nurses and healers because they would be in high demand during wartime.

Do you think she walked off a boat from Volantis by herself and wandered aimlessly onto a battlefield to start healing people? I don't need everything spelled out for me but if she's a nurse on the battlefield, I think the assumption is that she's working within some kind of organized group to provide nursing aid to the war effort.

LOL, why do you make such an assumption other than to apologize for the giant plot and logic holes the show created by making her a foreign lone nurse?

No other nurses were seen on the battlefield, were they? She never speaks of any other nurses or anyone else in her "order" in fact she asks Robb to get her fresh supplies, which strongly suggests she's not part of any nurse order at all but is indeed a random woman trapsing around Westeros by herself, otherwise she would have asked for someone to send word to her fellow nurses for more supplies or to the silent sisters she's been working and traveling with...but that isn't what she did, is it? She speaks of HER supplies only.

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LOL, why do you make such an assumption other than to apologize for the giant plot and logic holes the show created by making her a foreign lone nurse?

No other nurses were seen on the battlefield, were they? She never speaks of any other nurses or anyone else in her "order" in fact she asks Robb to get her fresh supplies, which strongly suggests she's not part of any nurse order at all but is indeed a random woman trapsing around Westeros by herself, otherwise she would have asked for someone to send word to her fellow nurses for more supplies or to the silent sisters she's been working and traveling with...but that isn't what she did, is it? She speaks of HER supplies only.

I'm going by the fact that every other character that interacts with her seems to be perfectly comfortable with the role that she is playing in the war which suggests to me that she's not doing anything out of the ordinary and that it's implied that she's doing what she's supposed to doing. Do I need the show to go out of its way to cast other nurses so that I can be spoonfed this information? Not for this tiny part of this story, no. If she was doing something that wasn't normal, wouldn't other characters acknowledge this?

I will also say that this particular complaint is contained almost completely to book readers who tend to freak out when there's a part of Westerosi society portrayed on the show that GRRM didn't talk about explicitly in the books. It is not a stretch for show watchers to accept that Talisa comes from a foreign land to serve as a nurse and is present on the battlefield in that capacity. They may certainly have issues with the character and the way she acts with Robb or the choices they make etc. but her legitimately being who she says she is doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

The minute, inconsequential shit that some people dwell on in this forum boggles my mind sometimes. Perspective folks....

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I'm going by the fact that every other character that interacts with her seems to be perfectly comfortable with the role that she is playing in the war which suggests to me that she's not doing anything out of the ordinary and that it's implied that she's doing what she's supposed to doing. Do I need the show to go out of its way to cast other nurses so that I can be spoonfed this information? Not for this tiny part of this story, no. If she was doing something that wasn't normal, wouldn't other characters acknowledge this?

I will also say that this particular complaint is contained almost completely to book readers who tend to freak out when there's a part of Westerosi society portrayed on the show that GRRM didn't talk about explicitly in the books. It is not a stretch for show watchers to accept that Talisa comes from a foreign land to serve as a nurse and is present on the battlefield in that capacity. They may certainly have issues with the character and the way she acts with Robb or the choices they make etc. but her legitimately being who she says she is doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

The minute, inconsequential shit that some people dwell on in this forum boggles my mind sometimes. Perspective folks....

Sorry I don't see the logic. Show characters aren't going to bring up plot holes in the show via show dialogue, so of course they don't have a problem with her character because that's how the show is written. Is Cat supposed to say "what are you doing trapsing around Westeros by yourself?" or something? LOL.

That doesn't mean there isn't a huge plot hole they created for themselves and simply ignored.

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I don't see it as a plot hole, just something where you make some reasonable assumptions about her because how she got to where she is isn't really that important. I don't need everything explained to me.

Being drafted in the war effort because she wanted to help the less fortunate (which was alluded to in her little monologue before her and Robb got it on) seems completely reasonable. If the characters on the show don't find what she's doing out of the norm, then why should you? Shouldn't the people on the battlefield be more in tune with who is doing what than a person simply getting a quick peak into that entire hierarchy should?

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