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Aarnikotka

[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

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I don't see it as a plot hole, just something where you make some reasonable assumptions about her because how she got to where she is isn't really that important. I don't need everything explained to me.

Being drafted in the war effort because she wanted to help the less fortunate (which was alluded to in her little monologue before her and Robb got it on) seems completely reasonable. If the characters on the show don't find what she's doing out of the norm, then why should you? Shouldn't the people on the battlefield be more in tune with who is doing what than a person simply getting a quick peak into that entire hierarchy should?

I've already explain as have others why her character's story is full of plot holes as she has been presented. The viewer is not supposed to have to invent a detailed back story to make the character's actions and presence believable...thats the job of the writers. And the show evidence directly contradicts the back story you have created, as I have also already explained based on the show dialogue and presentation. Everyone knows Bruce Willis is not going to die in the Die Hard movies, that doesn't make it realistic that he doesn't actually die, just as characters on the show taking Talisa the Volantis nurse as normal doesn't mean anything in terms of whether its a plot hole or not. But, we can agree to disagree.

In a few days hopefully she'll be dead and out of the show and the horror they made of Robb's story will be ended.

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I am curious to know Talisa's previous nursing experiences.

She says that she has been hacking off body parts for the last two years.

But there haven't been that many wars in the last two years. I mean its only been a year since Robb's rebellion right?

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I've already explain as have others why her character's story is full of plot holes as she has been presented. The viewer is not supposed to have to invent a detailed back story to make the character's actions and presence believable...thats the job of the writers. And the show evidence directly contradicts the back story you have created, as I have also already explained based on the show dialogue and presentation. Everyone knows Bruce Willis is not going to die in the Die Hard movies, that doesn't make it realistic that he doesn't actually die, just as characters on the show taking Talisa the Volantis nurse as normal doesn't mean anything in terms of whether its a plot hole or not. But, we can agree to disagree.

In a few days hopefully she'll be dead and out of the show and the horror they made of Robb's story will be ended.

:agree:

Sorry just got back but yes obviously the actors aren't going to have their characters think Talisa is odd and see her as out of place because the writers and directors have it to where they don't. Just because they make it look that way doesn't mean it isn't odd a random lone nurse (since that's how she appears and she mentions no other nurses or orginization that she's with) is all by herself on a battlefield. Actors can only do with their characters what they're given and the producers aren't going to show the plot hole they've created and make it even more obvious than it already is.. That would make them look even more idiotic with this arc if they did that.

Hopefully soon enough we'll know if the spy theory is true or not then we will know with certainty if the writers completely dropped the ball or not.

I am curious to know Talisa's previous nursing experiences.

She says that she has been hacking off body parts for the last two years.

But there haven't been that many wars in the last two years. I mean its only been a year since Robb's rebellion right?

That's true. They've really done hardly anything to explain this character and her story.. Maybe they're counting season two and three as two years? But that is a complete contradiction to the timeline where Dany mentions not having dragons about a year ago.. So my only thought is maybe she did nursing things back in Volantis before coming there but that doesn't make a ton of sense either. How long exactly does it take to travel from Volantis to Westeros and end up with the northern army?

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That's true. They've really done hardly anything to explain this character and her story.. Maybe they're counting season two and three as two years? But that is a complete contradiction to the timeline where Dany mentions not having dragons about a year ago.. So my only thought is maybe she did nursing things back in Volantis before coming there but that doesn't make a ton of sense either. How long exactly does it take to travel from Volantis to Westeros and end up with the northern army?

Again, why do people read so much into this to a ridiculous degree? She's said she's been doing nursing stuff for the last 2 years, she doesn't say where. Presumably, she didn't learn to be a nurse the day she stepped onto the battlefields at the Riverlands, there are lots of wars around the world that she could have been a part of. Really, it shouldn't matter because it's not fucking important.

I imagine the same people complaining that Talisa's character and backstory have not been fleshed out would be screaming bloody murder if the show actually went ahead and did this because it would be taking time away from the other characters. This was always going to be a no-win proposition for the producers because god knows that the book fans would find a way to complain regardless of what happened.

She's an underwritten character because they needed her to serve a purpose and this is how they decided to do it and didn't spend a whole lot of time on creating a big backstory for it. Because they didn't think it was important. They needed Robb to fall in love with someone quickly while he was almost exclusively in camps on the battlefield. That limited the options so making up a nurse seemed like the best choice available to them. They count on suspension of disbelief from the audience on everything else because they don't have time to talk about the how and why she was there in the first place. I know I sure as fuck didn't care about those questions. The vast majority of the audience doesn't either. Nit pickers will nit pick of course, that's what Westeros.org is for it appears...

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Again, why do people read so much into this to a ridiculous degree? She's said she's been doing nursing stuff for the last 2 years, she doesn't say where. Presumably, she didn't learn to be a nurse the day she stepped onto the battlefields at the Riverlands, there are lots of wars around the world that she could have been a part of. Really, it shouldn't matter because it's not fucking important.

I imagine the same people complaining that Talisa's character and backstory have not been fleshed out would be screaming bloody murder if the show actually went ahead and did this because it would be taking time away from the other characters. This was always going to be a no-win proposition for the producers because god knows that the book fans would find a way to complain regardless of what happened.

She's an underwritten character because they needed her to serve a purpose and this is how they decided to do it and didn't spend a whole lot of time on creating a big backstory for it. Because they didn't think it was important. They needed Robb to fall in love with someone quickly while he was almost exclusively in camps on the battlefield. That limited the options so making up a nurse seemed like the best choice available to them. They count on suspension of disbelief from the audience on everything else because they don't have time to talk about the how and why she was there in the first place. I know I sure as fuck didn't care about those questions. The vast majority of the audience doesn't either. Nit pickers will nit pick of course, that's what Westeros.org is for it appears...

Um that just shows they really don't care about arcs. If they can't even bother to give her a decent backstory to make her a little more believable what does that say about what the writers will do in the future? I wouldn't mind if they showed a couple scenes of her to explain and fill in plot holes but no they don't care about Robb or Catelyn so they butchered their arcs. Show only viewers aren't complete idiots. I know my mom when she watches things and hasn't read a book (or whatever something is based off of) thinks about what's logical and what seems not to be in said show or movie. I know not all people do that but there are people who watch stuff and think 'wait, how much sense does that make?'.

So yes by your logic the writers obviously think show only viewers are idiots and they also consider the RW plot to be useless and not important if they can't even bother to give the woman Robb marries and causes his demise more of a backstory.

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Then I guess GRRM thought the same thing since Jeyne Westerling had nothing approaching a backstory and was basically not allowed to speak when we had that chance to see her.

Some characters don't need long backstories. They are there to serve a function for the plot and that's pretty much it.

You don't need Talisa's backstory to see that Robb is smitten with her when he meets her and that they get together because of this. Where she comes from isn't important just as what the hell was up with Jeyne Westerling wasn't important.

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Um that just shows they really don't care about arcs. If they can't even bother to give her a decent backstory to make her a little more believable what does that say about what the writers will do in the future? I wouldn't mind if they showed a couple scenes of her to explain and fill in plot holes but no they don't care about Robb or Catelyn so they butchered their arcs. Show only viewers aren't complete idiots. I know my mom when she watches things and hasn't read a book (or whatever something is based off of) thinks about what's logical and what seems not to be in said show or movie. I know not all people do that but there are people who watch stuff and think 'wait, how much sense does that make?'.

So yes by your logic the writers obviously think show only viewers are idiots and they also consider the RW plot to be useless and not important if they can't even bother to give the woman Robb marries and causes his demise more of a backstory.

What backstory does Jeyne Westerling have? I'll answer it for you - much less of a story than Talisa. Who cares, her only purpose is to make Robb be a dope.

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I am curious to know Talisa's previous nursing experiences.

She says that she has been hacking off body parts for the last two years.

But there haven't been that many wars in the last two years. I mean its only been a year since Robb's rebellion right?

Has it been only a year? Maybe it was two, Maybe she wasn't hacking off body parts just in Robb's Rebellion. Does it matter where she was hacking off body parts?

Maybe her only purpose is to deliver Robb's heir? Or maybe if they want to expand her role they flesh it out later. Do we have enough time flesh out where she has been a nurse before Westeros?

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Then I guess GRRM thought the same thing since Jeyne Westerling had nothing approaching a backstory and was basically not allowed to speak when we had that chance to see her.

Some characters don't need long backstories. They are there to serve a function for the plot and that's pretty much it.

You don't need Talisa's backstory to see that Robb is smitten with her when he meets her and that they get together because of this. Where she comes from isn't important just as what the hell was up with Jeyne Westerling wasn't important.

The fact of the matter is, Jeyne has less plot holes then Talisa. And I never said she needed a long backstory. But if they had spent a couple scenes to actually give her some dialogue that explained how the hell she got to Westeros that would have helped things. Just some stupid silly little story about her brother doesn't explain much except how she became a nurse, but didn't even explain what it was she did to be able to learn said knowledge. Obviously Jeyne isn't a very fleshed out character but there's a lot less plot holes with her.

And we basically knew Jeyne's backstory hers doesn't need as much explaining because she already lived in Westeros, was a daughter to the enemies bannermen, how much more exactly does she need? Talisa.. We don't know how she, a woman, learned extensive knowledge, where the hell her protection is to keep her from being raped or harmed on the battlefield, what made her choose Westeros when if she hated slavery she should be like Dany and doing something to help slaves, not half way across the world mending soldiers in a war that doesn't have much affect on her. There's numerous other things I could mention but none of it seems to matter. Show apologists clearly can't tell when a character is horribly written and can't seem to accept that the show does have some flaws, even if its still one of the better things on tv nowadays. I think people on here like to argue just to argue when it comes to some things. (Seeing as when I replied to the one person about where Talisa nursed before Robb's army, I just mentioned a possible option. I don't think in detail about her character because the writers don't care so why in the hell should I care what happens to her?)

At least Robb and Cat's arc massacre is almost over...

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What backstory does Jeyne Westerling have? I'll answer it for you - much less of a story than Talisa. Who cares, her only purpose is to make Robb be a dope.

As I mentioned above Jeyne doesn't need as big of a backstory as Talisa. She makes sense in that world and has less plot holes than Talisa. What can't you people understand about that?

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As I mentioned above Jeyne doesn't need as big of a backstory as Talisa. She makes sense in that world and has less plot holes than Talisa. What can't you people understand about that?

What backstory do we need from Talisa that we didn't need from Jeyne? She was a noble who disliked the rich, servant possessing life in the free cities and decided to use her life for something helpful and meaningful. What more do you need to know?

Is it unrealistic? Sure. But why you think we need to learn more about her is beyond me. If anything the mystery is the only thing remotely interesting about her character.

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What backstory do we need from Talisa that we didn't need from Jeyne? She was a noble who disliked the rich, servant possessing life in the free cities and decided to use her life for something helpful and meaningful. What more do you need to know?

Is it unrealistic? Sure. But why you think we need to learn more about her is beyond me. If anything the mystery is the only thing remotely interesting about her character.

But if that's the case why isn't she pulling a Dany and wanting to do something to help the slaves when she hates the society? Why go half way across the world to tend to people you don't care about when you could be better use trying to do things in the Free Cities. As I mentioned above and numerous people mentioned they show her as by herself in Westeros in battlefields how has nothing bad at all happened to her? It makes no sense. And how has she, a woman, learned this sort of knowledge for nursing?

I'm not saying Jeyne is better, but realistically she fits into the setting/world a lot better than Talisa does. I don't think either character is all that great but Talisa just seriously lacks when it comes to plausibility.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think she's mysterious at all. All I see is a massive plot hole that shows the writers don't give a crap about the RW arc. And she is rather annoying and bland with some of her dialogue. Was there issues with Jeyne in the books? Sure. But I see the issues with Talisa as worse.

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But if that's the case why isn't she pulling a Dany and wanting to do something to help the slaves when she hates the society? Why go half way across the world to tend to people you don't care about when you could be better use trying to do things in the Free Cities. As I mentioned above and numerous people mentioned they show her as by herself in Westeros in battlefields how has nothing bad at all happened to her? It makes no sense. And how has she, a woman, learned this sort of knowledge for nursing?

From Silent Sisters? From basically anyone? Also, I'm fairly sure women are traditionally the ones who do nursing in Westeros.

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Then what is the point of maesters...

I dont think maesters traditionally would do battlefield nursing, that's what the silent sister's would do, or Septa's. Maesters cater to the nobility. The point is, you made it sound like there is no way for a woman to learn nursing, when there are women who nurse, and it's not exactly impossible to learn

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I dont think maesters traditionally would do battlefield nursing, that's what the silent sister's would do, or Septa's. Maesters cater to the nobility. The point is, you made it sound like there is no way for a woman to learn nursing, when there are women who nurse, and it's not exactly impossible to learn

Oh no I wasn't meaning to say it like that. My point is we hardly know anything about her past. All we have is some boring story about why she became a nurse, not how she learned to (I'm guessing she learned in Volantis somehow.) basically we have to make all these assumptions just to make things seem semi plausible when that shouldn't be our jobs. The writers should have done enough for us to understand this character and how she makes sense in this world. But they didn't because they think people are idiots who won't see the plot holes they've created. That was my point. I'm sure women in that world have some sort of knowledge I just think it's unrealistic a noblewoman, from a forgiven country, would have all this extensive medical knowledge and go around hacking off body parts. Especially if she hates slavery, it would make more sense for her to try and help people in the Free Cities like Dany is attempting to do.

But it's whatever. The writers can't fix an already horrible storyline. The best to hope for is she dies with Robb at the wedding so they won't continue to shove this character down everyone's throats.

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The writers should have done enough for us to understand this character and how she makes sense in this world. But they didn't because they think people are idiots who won't see the plot holes they've created.

Or perhaps they're deliberately vague because they don't want us to be sure?

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Or perhaps they're deliberately vague because they don't want us to be sure?

Yeah, it's like that saying where it is better to keep your mouth shut and risk being taken for a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Or perhaps they're deliberately vague because they don't want us to be sure?

Yeah, it's like that saying where it is better to keep your mouth shut and risk being taken for a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

So basically they haven't given a backstory because they realize the writers would look worse than they already do where this arc is concerned?

Makes sense. I still think they're idiots. If they gave a backstory at least it would make things a little better IMO lol.

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