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Aarnikotka

[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

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Yeah, it's like that saying where it is better to keep your mouth shut and risk being taken for a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

Not really, it's been obvious particularly in the episode 7 scene that she is written deliberately ambiguously, her background is deliberately vague.

I think we'll find she is actually somewhat closer to Jeyne than she is telling, she isn't from Volantis she's from the Westerlands, but she isn't a spy as such, she really is just writing to her mother, or at least she thinks she's just writing to her mother...

Her tragedy is she does love Robb, is pregnant with his child, but is unwittingly supplying the intel that brings about his downfall.

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Not really, it's been obvious particularly in the episode 7 scene that she is written deliberately ambiguously, her background is deliberately vague.

I think we'll find she is actually somewhat closer to Jeyne than she is telling, she isn't from Volantis she's from the Westerlands, but she isn't a spy as such, she really is just writing to her mother, or at least she thinks she's just writing to her mother...

Her tragedy is she does love Robb, is pregnant with his child, but is unwittingly supplying the intel that brings about his downfall.

I seriously doubt she's from the Westerlands. She just has that foreign look to her, kind of like how you can just tell Shae isn't of Westeros. And Martin wrote episode seven. He could only do with what the show has given to work with, so obviously he can't go completely off book to let us have a backstory. He had to write the scene the way he did to stick within the parameters the show set up already. I will be shocked if she is actually a Westerling, or even another enemy bannermen seeing as she went with Robb to The Craig.

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The only plot hole in book Jeyne Westerling storyline is why the Westerlings didn't just poison Robb, there is no plot or logic hole in Jeyne Westerling nursing Robb Stark at the Crag, her home, when he is injured on the battlefield, and them falling in love when you compare it to a lone nurse person traveling as far as the TV show has shown by herself through a war zone with no visible means of monetary support or a body guard who starts immediately talking anti war smack to the King in the North and then is allowed to barge into his command center all the time.

When the show makes huge changes it is incumbent on them not to create logic and plot holes....they did the same thing with the stupid Mel/Gendry leech scene, wherein they have her expressly state that fear ruins the blood and then in the very next scene show Gendry screaming in fear. That is laughably poor continuity and logic attention whether the majority of fans care or not, it is what it is...a logic fail.

And, they made the Dany/Drogo love story work in a handful of episodes, so why shouldn't the expectation be that they could make the Robb/Talisa love story work in a handful of episodes, in fact, I think they took more episodes with their story, but since the creation was so poor it didn't work very well.

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The only plot hole in book Jeyne Westerling storyline is why the Westerlings didn't just poison Robb, there is no plot or logic hole in Jeyne Westerling nursing Robb Stark at the Crag, her home, when he is injured on the battlefield, and them falling in love when you compare it to a lone nurse person traveling as far as the TV show has shown by herself through a war zone with no visible means of monetary support or a body guard who starts immediately talking anti war smack to the King in the North and then is allowed to barge into his command center all the time.

When the show makes huge changes it is incumbent on them not to create logic and plot holes....they did the same thing with the stupid Mel/Gendry leech scene, wherein they have her expressly state that fear ruins the blood and then in the very next scene show Gendry screaming in fear. That is laughably poor continuity and logic attention whether the majority of fans care or not, it is what it is...a logic fail.

And, they made the Dany/Drogo love story work in a handful of episodes, so why shouldn't the expectation be that they could make the Robb/Talisa love story work in a handful of episodes, in fact, I think they took more episodes with their story, but since the creation was so poor it didn't work very well.

Again :agree:.

It's sad when Dany and Drogo's story actually worked but then they try to build up a Robb/Talisa love story before they marry and it still fails horribly.

I don't understand people in saying Talisa is better than Jeyne. I don't think either are all that great, neither are main characters, but at least the Westerlings have less plot holes compared to the Volantis nurse.

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I seriously doubt she's from the Westerlands. She just has that foreign look to her, kind of like how you can just tell Shae isn't of Westeros.

Perhaps she has ancestors from Essos, like Jeyne Westerling...

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Perhaps she has ancestors from Essos, like Jeyne Westerling...

Jeyne isn't described as foreign looking. But I still seriously doubt she's a bannermen of the enemy. They changed the whole arc for that reason.

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So seriously we need an entire life's story for Talissa but the backstory for Jeyne is okay at "she squirted out of a rich cunt's cunt'?

No, we need a believable baseline of how a lone woman from Volantis is managing to exist in a war zone on her own without being kidnapped or raped. That's it. I don't think that's too much to ask in terms of logic.

In fact, we already got her life story of being a rich noblewoman in Volantis, having her brother saved by a slave, then rejecting her family and the life of a noblewoman in Volantis, a slaveholding society in favor of doing good deeds as a nurse.

What we don't know though is how she gets from battle to battle by herself without being harmed, where she gets her supplies and why no one has killed her, raped her or kidnapped her for ransom.

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Maybe, maybe not, the arc isn't over yet. They've added the ambiguity for a reason, and it is there.

They've done that because they're not good writers compared to Martin. It seems they've left mystery because they couldn't make a believable character IMO.

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They've done that because they're not good writers compared to Martin. It seems they've left mystery because they couldn't make a believable character IMO.

I think its in there for a reason as well, some of the looks she's had are too pronounced not to be in there to create viewer doubt...but my theory is that the show writers think its cool to keep book readers guessing when they change things....

I thought for a long time she was going to turn out to be Jeyne Westerling who was pretending to be from Volantis for some unknown reason...so she could go tend to the bannermen or something, especially after the crazy/guilty look from Talisa when the rider from the Crag showed up. Since I refused to believe they would make such a gratuitious change for no apparent reason.

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Talisa has almost double the screen time of Catelyn in S2 and five times that in S3. Yet we know almost nothing about her, she's still a mystery.

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They've done that because they're not good writers compared to Martin

This is Martin who introduced all the confusion about Jeyne by forgetting his different descriptions of her?

It seems they've left mystery because they couldn't make a believable character IMO.

I guess that's the difference between us. My opinion is that very little in this series is happening accidentally, they're plotting scenes and arcs 2-3 series a head.

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No, we need a believable baseline of how a lone woman from Volantis is managing to exist in a war zone on her own without being kidnapped or raped. That's it. I don't think that's too much to ask in terms of logic.

Seriously? You realize that medieval armies were like entire cities on the move right? She's a camp follower hence why no one really looks at her twice until Robb starts making googly eyes at her.

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I think its in there for a reason as well, some of the looks she's had are too pronounced not to be in there to create viewer doubt...but my theory is that the show writers think its cool to keep book readers guessing when they change things....

I thought for a long time she was going to turn out to be Jeyne Westerling who was pretending to be from Volantis for some unknown reason...so she could go tend to the bannermen or something, especially after the crazy/guilty look from Talisa when the rider from the Crag showed up. Since I refused to believe they would make such a gratuitious change for no apparent reason.

I agree they probably are doing this to mess with book readers heads. But I think the looks oona gives her character look a snobby and uppity not actually guilty.

But I don't think she's from Westeros though that would just ruin the tiny but of buildup they did give Talisa.

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Seriously? You realize that medieval armies were like entire cities on the move right? She's a camp follower hence why no one really looks at her twice until Robb starts making googly eyes at her.

Camp followers who were women alone were prostitutes, so if she's a camp follower, then the army is going to consider her a prostitute because she's got nobody with her to verify her station in life or protect her, so again, logic fail.

What I realize is that single noble women didn't run around in the middle ages by themselves as camp followers and so Talisa's story is not believable.

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We have dragons and Direwolves and Resurrection, and we are going to scrutinize the fact that she should have been raped by now because she is single and alone because it doesn't match how single noble ladies behaved in our medieval times?

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We have dragons and Direwolves and Resurrection, and we are going to scrutinize the fact that she should have been raped by now because she is single and alone because it doesn't match how single noble ladies behaved in our medieval times?

Either things conform to the in-universe norms or they don't. In GRRM's universe resurection occurs but there are rules, same with magic. A random noble woman running around a war zone by herself is a plot hole, and the fact that dragons exist in hte story doesn't make it not a plot hole.

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Camp followers who were women alone were prostitutes, so if she's a camp follower, then the army is going to consider her a prostitute because she's got nobody with her to verify her station in life or protect her, so again, logic fail.

What I realize is that single noble women didn't run around in the middle ages by themselves as camp followers and so Talisa's story is not believable.

You can't simply draw such strict lines on behaviour. It would be unusual but at no historical period impossible for a single women to act as a voluntary battlefield nurse.

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You can't simply draw such strict lines on behaviour. It would be unusual but at no historical period impossible for a single women to act as a voluntary battlefield nurse.

Not impossible doesn't equate to logical. Certainly, it is not impossible that a random noble woman could have at some time in history worked as a nurse without getting raped, kidnapped or ransomed and somehow found money to pay for her own supplies without getting robbed of that money...what with her being alone in a war zone full of desperate, starving people...

But, why not come up with something that is a little more believable than "not impossible" for a storyline?

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