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Aarnikotka

[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

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Confirmation on this? Actually, the idea that her family played her to secure higher standing in the Game of Thrones fits perfectly into the books and TV shows. Why would they remove this element? Having her someone removed from the conflict eliminates drama.

Talisa as this Mother Teresa figure saving lives on the battefield playing the Angel in Robb's ear is about as saccharine and anti-Martin as it gets. So, either her character is horribly written or there's more to her than meets the eye.

Personally, I'm hoping there isn't some Telemundo reveal that ruins the RW. But I'll be surprised if Talisa is the first paragon in the series.

I'm extrapolating on this obviously because D&D have not talked about their reasons for making the changes. But it's very clear that they would like for the Lannisters and Starks to have set lines that differentiate each other and have simplified many of the relationships that have greyed this line in the books.

1) For instance, you've got Cleos Frey being renamed Alton Lannister so that the audience is not confused with why a Frey is a Lannister cousin when they are supposedly backing Robb.

2) Both the boy squires that were captured at Riverrun have Lannister as their last names (different than the books) to make this clear which side they're from.

3) The alternating changing allegiances of the Bloody Mummers have been jettisoned and replaced simply with Locke and his group who are sworn to Bolton from the start and don't switch sides.

So knowing that Westerlings in canon are sworn to the Lannisters, they removed that element of Jeyne and kept the portion of their story that had the two of them fall in love in the midst of the war and getting married when it was a bad idea strategically. Jeyne is innocent in the books and they've kept that part for Talisa. Once they decided that she wasn't going to be a Westerling, they were free to choose her background and they eventually settled on Volantis (for a variety of reasons). This necessitated them having to change her name so that they could not even retain the "Jeyne" portion of the link to the book character.

Hell, they even had the two of them visit the Crag last year (more as a wink to the book reader audience than anything else I imagine) which also should have confirmed for all involved that she wasn't Jeyne Westerling. Although I suppose if you believe all the other crazy shit about the spy theory, it wouldn't be too much of a step for you to also have no problem swallowing that the conspiracy to keep Jeyne a secret stretched out to encompass every person at the Crag so that her identity wouldn't be blown by anybody when she showed up with Robb.

If Blackfish is going to be at the RW with Talisa (and he's certainly on the road with everyone on the way to the Twins so I'd guess he probably is), then I would be guessing that they're going to find a way to reset the storyline to more or less where we are in the books by having him escape with Talisa back to RIvverrun in the chaos (ordered by a desperate or dying Robb most likely). It gives them a little bit more of a connection for when we catch up with them later and he acts as more of a father figure and protector.

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The idea that anyone can escape from the RW just destroys the utter and complete slaughter that was the RW. I'd rather they die than having a miraculous escape.

Agreed. Blackfish escaping while Cat dies doesn't make a hell a lot of sense unless he's outside in the Camps.

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In regards to Talisa being a spy, I would highly suggest this clip being reviewed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A6BCgP3zmA&feature=player_detailpage#t=149s

I thought this scene was highly suspicious and (if Talisa is a spy) foreshadowing. What is the purpose of this scene? To introduce the Lannister boys and convey their innocence? Well, that would be fine, but why the need to place Talisa there? She's mending Lannisters. She talks of not being afraid of wolves. I mean, I could be wrong, but her betraying Robb and taking the place of Jinglebell seems to fit to me.

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Love your posts on this page, King Tommen. Well-stated and thorough. I never bought the spy thing 100% but believed something was fishy with Talisa's whole story, and I was ready to have her spy status confirmed. But you laid it all out in a very common sense fashion.

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As far as her being a spy and taking Jinglebell's place, I don't think that makes a whole lot of sense given Cat's entire reason for threatening Jinglebell in the first place. And even besides that, it's much more Walder Frey-like to kill Robb's bride in front of him rather than Robb having been spied upon, and I can see it happening easily.

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In regards to Talisa being a spy, I would highly suggest this clip being reviewed:

http://www.youtube.c...tailpage#t=149s

I thought this scene was highly suspicious and (if Talisa is a spy) foreshadowing. What is the purpose of this scene? To introduce the Lannister boys and convey their innocence? Well, that would be fine, but why the need to place Talisa there? She's mending Lannisters. She talks of not being afraid of wolves. I mean, I could be wrong, but her betraying Robb and taking the place of Jinglebell seems to fit to me.

Again, looking way too deep into things. Yes, it's a necessary scene because we need to see the boys before they get killed by Karstark so that we know who they are and maybe feel a little bit of sympathy for them because of how innocent, nice and scared they clearly are shown to be. Why Talisa? Because she's the most likely character that we know of who would be put in that situation. She's a nurse and prisoners still get treated. They even established clearly the first time we met her that she doesn't care about who is fighting who, her main concern as a nurse is to care for the injured and those who can't care for themselves.

It's also meant to humanize her a bit, give her a scene away from Robb. When she hears from the boys what kind of crazy horror story stuff has been put in their heads with regards to the Starks, she puts their minds at ease but still teases them a little playfully.

I have no idea how anyone could take that scene to be suspicious in any way.

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The idea that anyone can escape from the RW just destroys the utter and complete slaughter that was the RW. I'd rather they die than having a miraculous escape.

If anyone can escape from the RW, it's the Blackfish. That dude mission impossibled himself out of Riverrun while it was under siege. He's a legend.

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Talisa being a spy would be such a shit plot twist. Not only is it full of holes but it completely undermines the Bolton betrayal, which D&D have clearly been working towards.

I think the Talisa letter writing is ultimately just a red herring put in there to throw people off the Bolton scent (and it seems to have worked amongst some of the Unsullied). D&D probably knew about the fan theory in Season 2 so thought it would be fun to feed it a bit more.

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The idea that anyone can escape from the RW just destroys the utter and complete slaughter that was the RW. I'd rather they die than having a miraculous escape.

Then why introduce BF? He would have served no purpose other than to die?

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This is the first rationale for Talisa's possible treachery that I've heard that has a sheen of believability about it. But why would she be faking being pregnant? Because if she's really pregnant, no way that kid could be allowed to be born. And she'd know that. Right?

Maybe she was promised otherwise? That they'd capture Robb and end the war and they'd be allowed to travel back north together?

Or maybe she wanted to have an heir so she could raise the next King to love peace and hate war or something?

I think Blackfish will fight his way out and save her personally, and she wasn't involved. But finding motives isn't an issue if I'm wrong.

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I don't know why people are saying she's mysterious, she's not. She's a nurse from Volantis who doesn't understand the war. She falls in love with Robb and is now dutifully by his side. She will either die, be captured or escape from the RW and that's it. This will all be confirmed in a little over a week's time and I will never have to hear about this garbage again and we will all be better for it.

Oh please.

Talisa is literally the most, well I wouldn't say 'mysterious', but rather, suspicious character in the entire show.

She literally comes out of nowhere and has zero proof of anything she says or does.

How come, no one on the bride's family side has turned up months after they've been married. Like, there is literally no one to confirm her identity as Talisa of house Maegyr. Not even a random servant or two. So she's been wandering around alone hacking off body parts for two years?

Her pursuit of Robb is incredibly aggressive, you really have to watch season 2 for this, again for what motivation?

If she's so anti war, why does she want to marry a King, who is waging war?

Literally nothing about the character makes sense unless she is a spy.

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Why are people so certain that Talisa's pregnancy is known to anyone but Robb? Unless she IS a spy writing letters about her condition to Tywin, it's pretty likely that the only people who know are her and Robb. She can't be much further along than three months and she's clearly not showing. I doubt she'd be bursting into the Twins announcing her condition to the Freys either.

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If she's really pregnant then she has to die, there is no Robb's son or daugther in the books.

I know D&D like to make some changes but this is certainly one they cannot make.

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Why don't you ask GRRM. He created BF and didn't have him die there.

Blackfish wasn't present at the RW in the books, he was holding Riverrun.

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Then why introduce BF? He would have served no purpose other than to die?

Couldn't that kind of be said about Ned, Catelyn's father (who died before we even met him), Cat herself, Lady, Grey Wind, Ygritte, the ill-fated father & son Stark retainers whose names I forget, oh anyone associated with the Starks, Tywin, and so on? If his purpose is to die and make the RW more dramatic, so be it - that's exactly the purpose characters like the Great Jon would serve, were they to be present this season.

As I may have said earlier in this thread, I think it's great that, because of Lady Talysa, I don't know what's going to happen at the Red Wedding. Fantastic - there's suspense for me, not just looming tragedy. I "hope" (from an aesthetic viewpoint) that she either dies or escapes with the Blackfish (he escorts her to her chamber if she falls ill, and they have a chance to go Errol Flynn out a window?); it's also possible that she's a spy, although I really hope not.

And I figure she's pregnant to either [a] escape and leave the Robb's heir issue at play, or make the RW even more dramatic - in particular have Robb react to seeing his pregnant wife cut down.

As for the "who writes a letter while they're naked?!" argument - gee, a married couple lazing about doing stuff without bothering to put clothes on. Like that never happens.

(Edited because somehow the letter b and parentheses resulted in an oddly-placed happy face.)

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