[Book Spoilers] Any redemption for Stannis in this episode?

[LuisDantas]

They are going out of their way to excuse Stannis in the TV series. Albeit at the expense of making Selyse a full-out nutjob.

Although I suppose that is not completely out of synch with the books, either. For all we know the couple _had_ such a conversation.

Loved Shireen, though :)

[Mammothsbane]

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They are going out of their way to excuse Stannis in the TV series. Albeit at the expense of making Selyse a full-out nutjob.

Although I suppose that is not completely out of synch with the books, either. For all we know the couple _had_ such a conversation.

Loved Shireen, though :)

Howso? I thought the novels excused Stannis FAR more than the TV series does.

[The Drunkard]

Major improvement over episode 3.

[Warhawk137]

Well, rather than "excusing" or "damning" Stannis, I think this episode just goes a long way towards justifying his character. The guy was a bit screwed up before, no doubt, but he always came off kind of flat because he really didn't seem to have a good reason to be. Stannis is perpetually dour, Stannis is a zealot, Stannis is obsessed with having an heir, because.......?

Well, now we have our answer. Granted, our answer is slightly horrifying, but it's an answer, and I think we understand Stannis a bit more because of that.

[Jorah the Explorer]

I didn't realize the show canon had Davos already named as Hand of the King. That's a bit disappointing. Also, the guy calling Stannis a douche really doesn't know the meaning of the word. The biggest douche in the world of Ice and Fire is certainly Daario.

[Toxspecific]

I didn't realize the show canon had Davos already named as Hand of the King. That's a bit disappointing. Also, the guy calling Stannis a douche really doesn't know the meaning of the word. The biggest douche in the world of Ice and Fire is certainly Daario.

How can Stannis be a douche though? Really out of character for him.

[StannisandDaeny]

I'm not too surprised when someone actually calls Stannis a 'douche'. After all, "if you told them he'd turned into a boar to slay his brother, they would believe that too."

How did you conclude that was Stannis' doing? I thought it was fairly obvious in that scene that it was Selyse who kept the stillborns...

Yeah, it was, but I don't think Stannis would allow it.

[Toxspecific]

I'm not too surprised when someone actually calls Stannis a 'douche'. After all, "if you told them he'd turned into a boar to slay his brother, they would believe that too."

Yeah, it was, but I don't think Stannis would allow it.

Agreed, he wouldn't allow it. Not in the books.

[BastardSnow]

I don't necessarily care for the actor that plays Stannis or how he's been portrayed on the show. Every time a Stannis scene comes up I just cringe.

[SerMudz]

I don't necessarily care for the actor that plays Stannis or how he's been portrayed on the show. Every time a Stannis scene comes up I just cringe.

Stephen Dillane is fantastic

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

This humanized Stannis more than any scene on the show so far. I agree with Elio's review, it was the best stuff so far featuring the Dragonstone gang (including the Blackwater)

Yeah, Ran nailed that. One nice touch was when Selyse clearly did not want Stannis to see Shireen. Westerosi mothers are generally much more involved in child rearing than fathers, and girls are generally valued less than boys. Yet, it is Stannis who apparently cares for Shireen at some level, and his wife who does not. But despite her madness, etc.., Stannis was loyal to Selyse until Melisandre, and even then, he couldn't stand the guilt so he confessed.

It's a really nice backstory to make his conversion to the guy who frees Davos, and admits his mistakes, more credible.

[Joyful Union]

I liked human Stannis (is that an oxymoron?). He was still cold, rigid and awkward, and his scene with Shireen was unintentional comedy as well. But I got more of a sense of his motivations than previously in the show.

Also this:

"Did you win?"

"...Nope"

I laughed so hard at that. Understatement of the century!

['96Buck]

From what I read, Galad's character: extravagant, social, good with people. Unless he experienced a change of character in the series? I stopped reading at a certain point, but unless that dude became a dead serious guy who is bad with his people skills I can't imagine him being anything like Stannis.

One of you has the wrong son of Queen Morgase that starts with G. One of them is like Stannis that ends up joining/leading the Whitecloaks, the other becomes a Warder IIRC.

[PhoenixFlame]

I liked human Stannis (is that an oxymoron?). He was still cold, rigid and awkward, and his scene with Shireen was unintentional comedy as well. But I got more of a sense of his motivations than previously in the show.

Also this:

"Did you win?"

"...Nope"

I laughed so hard at that. Understatement of the century!

Agreed! I loved the moment when Shireen hugged him and he had this brief freaked out look.

[Toxspecific]

I liked human Stannis (is that an oxymoron?). He was still cold, rigid and awkward, and his scene with Shireen was unintentional comedy as well. But I got more of a sense of his motivations than previously in the show.

Also this:

"Did you win?"

"...Nope"

I laughed so hard at that. Understatement of the century!

How is it an oxymoron? Stannis isn't evil by any means. May have been a bit too angry when the series started but he's definitely not a bad guy.

And his scene with Shireen was nice. Cold rigid Stannis showing he loves his daughter, and the way she got up to meet him shows there isn't any 'awkwardness in there.' People have been viewing the scene wrongly so much. That's just how Stannis talks. And he sounded more chill talking to her than he is with others who aren't Davos.

Loved the "Nope". As if he was answering a question more along the lines of "Did you have fun today, daddy?".

[AliKat]

As a non-Stannis book or show fan - yes this episode showed some redemption for the character. Seeing him with his daughter was a little bit endearing. And the fact that she is the first person on the show to make Stannis Baratheon smile was really sweet.

Shireen is super cute on the show (character wise) which is strange considering who her parents are lol Her with Davos - ADORBS.

[AliKat]

It showed the 'if I lose, win the throne for my daughter' side of Stannis. Although I think Shireen would be shredded if she attempted to take the throne. She's too sweet.

[Toxspecific]

Stannis is a hero.

I hate how Renly made fun of Shireen. How could you, Renly?

[Thelastactionhero]

Anyone notice how the "Inside the Episodes" never make any mention of Stannis most of the time? And on the rare occasions they do the analysis is predominantly negative? Some really interesting things happened with him in this episode, and DwD spent no time talking about Stannis' arc, or the introduction of his family into the mix. That being said, I thought that this episode went a long way in making up for what happened on the beach. Stannis is still villanized in some capacity, but these scenes gave clearer insight into his character, and if nothing else, made him a more three dimensional figure. Should this arc continue to develop in this fashion, his inner conflicts, and his ultimate decision to save the Wall might actually be stunningly moving. We'll see though. Not holding my breath, as I could see them make attempts at villainizing him even when he saves the realm at the end of the damn book.

[Mammothsbane]

Anyone notice how the "Inside the Episodes" never make any mention of Stannis most of the time? And on the rare occasions they do the analysis is predominantly negative? Some really interesting things happened with him in this episode, and DwD spent no time talking about Stannis' arc, or the introduction of his family into the mix. That being said, I thought that this episode went a long way in making up for what happened on the beach. Stannis is still villanized in some capacity, but these scenes gave clearer insight into his character, and if nothing else, made him a more three dimensional figure. Should this arc continue to develop in this fashion, his inner conflicts, and his ultimate decision to save the Wall might actually be stunningly moving. We'll see though. Not holding my breath, as I could see them make attempts at villainizing him even when he saves the realm at the end of the damn book.

it's been discussed before that D&D do not like Stannis