[Book Spoilers] Any redemption for Stannis in this episode?

[The Dornish Direwolf]

Great scenese, but anyone else think the fetuses are too much? The only explanation for me is that their gona use them instead of leeches

Completely agree. Book Stannis would NEVER allow his wife to keep his unborn children in jars. Thought it was pointlessly added. Even if they will be used as substitutes for leeches.

[Hodors Shlong]

I don't think that redemption for Stannis is the word I'd use - but definitely sympathy for him.

I've known people like that, who are just incapable of showing their feelings, because it would make them vulnerable and they're terrified of rejection. It doesn't mean they don't feel anything. It's particularly common in men above a certain age, who were raised in different times - which means, IMO, that it suits Stannis perfectly. He's just not good with any social interaction unless there's a clear set of rules to follow. A lord is expected to do this, his bannerman should do that. Step outside the rules, and Stannis feels like he's not in control of the situation, which is a scary,scary thing.

Well said.

[Frey Pie a la Mode]

I don't think that redemption for Stannis is the word I'd use - but definitely sympathy for him.

I've known people like that, who are just incapable of showing their feelings, because it would make them vulnerable and they're terrified of rejection. It doesn't mean they don't feel anything. It's particularly common in men above a certain age, who were raised in different times - which means, IMO, that it suits Stannis perfectly. He's just not good with any social interaction unless there's a clear set of rules to follow. A lord is expected to do this, his bannerman should do that. Step outside the rules, and Stannis feels like he's not in control of the situation, which is a scary,scary thing.

Yes, this is how I view Stannis as well. Things are the way they are in his mind, and he cannot handle it when events deviate from his expectations. Same with his dealings with other people. He is so awkward around other people and seems blind to their motivations.

I swear it seems like he has autism spectrum disorder.

[Mammothsbane]

love stannis in the book and show love the actor but i dont like all the stannis changes in the TV show. seems they change so much of his stuff i think throwing davos in dungeon alone is huge

I agree.

[StannisandDaeny]

Yes, this is how I view Stannis as well. Things are the way they are in his mind, and he cannot handle it when events deviate from his expectations. Same with his dealings with other people. He is so awkward around other people and seems blind to their motivations.

I swear it seems like he has autism spectrum disorder.

*Ahem* He does win over the Northern hill tribesmen and is masterful at reading and predicting those who follow him, and even those who don't follow him. See how he just walks into the Night's Watch and figures out how to play them rather quickly. His expectations are usually pretty low even if they're opposite from how they think things should be. In his conversations with Davos and Jon, he shows some wit (which is a conversational skill) and he definitely isn't such a poor speaker that anyone who enters a conversation with him just waltzes over him and leaves him speechless, on the contrary. He's actually a quite clever man, just someone who cuts the crap and doesn't bother with niceties.

[The Dornish Direwolf]

How is locking Davos in a dungeon deviating from book Stannis? That is exactly what he does to Davos when he first returns to Dragonstone.

[stanniswillwin]

do any dbz fans think stannis is similar to vegeta ?

[Shadow on the Wall]

do any dbz fans think stannis is similar to vegeta ?

Not at all. Why?

[Mammothsbane]

How is locking Davos in a dungeon deviating from book Stannis? That is exactly what he does to Davos when he first returns to Dragonstone.

Nope.

Davos is imprisoned by Axell Florent before he meets with Stannis

[bobbybuilderton]

I thought it was interesting how handsy he is with Melisandre and how awkward he is with his wife. Choking her, grabbing her when she's walking away, compared to the physical distance and lack of contact with his wife. It seemed like he didn't even want to be in the same room as her. Honestly, I don't think he would have spoken to her at all if he hadn't wanted to confess to her and if it wasn't rude to visit his daughter without visiting his wife. And I enjoyed how blunt he was with his daughter. Very Stannis. When she asked if they won, it wasn't even like "no, but we're going to regroup and kick some ass!" Because that's not his plan right now and he wouldn't sugarcoat it. He has no plan and all there is to say is that he lost.

Also Shireen is SO CUTE. Or maybe I've just always had a soft spot for cripples, bastards, and broken things.

[ebevan91]

Nevermind lol

[Stannis the Wight]

Yes and no. There were bits that gave him some redemption, but also some bad things. In the end, it will depend on what people choose to remember and talk about, and it is in human nature to remember and focus on the bad and / or shocking.

Selyse probably isn't ugly enough, tbh Tara Fitzgerald isn't ugly at all... But okay, since the fetuses show he's been trying and the show doesn't establish he shirks away from her as much as the books do, I suppose I can live with it. That he wants a son is probably a better reason for doing Mel than thinking Selyse is ugly (even though, the way she's described...) or doing it just to have magical assassins.

His apology was probably the best thing about this episode for him.

I can see why they used the fetuses (to remind people of the stillborns), but it is kinda cruel to think Stannis would not give his unborn sons a proper burial. Makes him look like the head of the Adams family, really. At the same time, people (especially mothers) should be able to sympathize with him a little - having so many stillborn children is just too much, you wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

'Davos is rotting in a dungeon' - please, he isn't... He was put in the dungeon (in good circumstances) to recover from almost dying and be protected from himself (it is a logical assumption to think he could have gone mad having spent so much time on a rock), besides Stannis didn't even put him there personally (as opposed to the show).

The relationship with his wife is far more interesting than in the book, so at the very least, it should make him more interesting to people.

'I believed that once' - Stannis, giving up? Please, his strength and resolve is the reason so many of us like him so much.

I enjoyed his scenes and the amount of screentime he got, but I think a lot of viewers will simply remember the creepiness and awkwardness about him displayed in this episode rather than anything else.

How did you conclude that was Stannis' doing? I thought it was fairly obvious in that scene that it was Selyse who kept the stillborns...

Anyhow, they did a good job of humanizing Stannis this episode.

[shiola]

I liked Stannis a lot this episode. <3 And I shall like him more when he has his talk to Davos in the dungeons and they go back to being BFF again.

[ImpudentLittleWench]

From the ways things are shaping up, I think I might end up liking TV!Stannis more than Book!Stannis...

What is happening to me?!

I already am, in the show he's kind of a sad sack, but I was never a big fan of Stannis in the books anyways.

Wish they could work in the Proudwing speech somehow.

[shiola]

Show Stannis is incredibly unlikeable. The dude wouldn't even hug his daughter back. But i'm cool with this because i don't like Stannis in the books either and don't really understand why a lot of people do like him. He's dull, one dimensional, totally cool with human sacrifice, and never smiles. Such a douche.

Wut.

[bobbybuilderton]

I think part of why people like Stannis is because there's so little ambiguity to him. He might be a little cold, but he offers a bit of stability and predictability in the world of double crossing and backstabbing. He's like a less warm Ned lol

[Mulled Wino]

The fetuses were ridiculous. I'm irked with how he's treating Davos and Shireen. I hate the implication that he never sees his daughter.

It was ok that he apologized to Selsye I guess.

Im not impressed.

[Pyrrhus]

Yes and no. There were bits that gave him some redemption, but also some bad things. In the end, it will depend on what people choose to remember and talk about, and it is in human nature to remember and focus on the bad and / or shocking.

Selyse probably isn't ugly enough, tbh Tara Fitzgerald isn't ugly at all... But okay, since the fetuses show he's been trying and the show doesn't establish he shirks away from her as much as the books do, I suppose I can live with it. That he wants a son is probably a better reason for doing Mel than thinking Selyse is ugly (even though, the way she's described...) or doing it just to have magical assassins.

His apology was probably the best thing about this episode for him.

I can see why they used the fetuses (to remind people of the stillborns), but it is kinda cruel to think Stannis would not give his unborn sons a proper burial. Makes him look like the head of the Adams family, really. At the same time, people (especially mothers) should be able to sympathize with him a little - having so many stillborn children is just too much, you wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

'Davos is rotting in a dungeon' - please, he isn't... He was put in the dungeon (in good circumstances) to recover from almost dying and be protected from himself (it is a logical assumption to think he could have gone mad having spent so much time on a rock), besides Stannis didn't even put him there personally (as opposed to the show).

The relationship with his wife is far more interesting than in the book, so at the very least, it should make him more interesting to people.

'I believed that once' - Stannis, giving up? Please, his strength and resolve is the reason so many of us like him so much.

I enjoyed his scenes and the amount of screentime he got, but I think a lot of viewers will simply remember the creepiness and awkwardness about him displayed in this episode rather than anything else.

I'd blame the fetuses more on Seylse. One thing I noticed in the TV show is that Stannis pretty much turns his back to the jars the entire episode, even when his wife goes to them and speaks to them. He even shakes his head, as if he's pitying the fact that his wife is literally on the verge of stark-raving-mad, if not already at that point. At one point in the beginning when he first enters their bedchambers, it looks as though he glimpses at the jars and quickly closes his eyes in disgust and looks away. The only problem with this, is book Stannis would NEVER allow his wife to keep them, not for her sake, not for any sake. But I can accept book Stannis and TV Stannis are different. It's not as though they need to be mirror images, if we don't like TV Stannis book Stannis is still the same man.

[Eucratides_Megas]

do any dbz fans think stannis is similar to vegeta ?

I guess that would make Goku Robert and Renly....Tarble? :lol: Goku wasn't Vegeta's bro but he might as well have been with their relationship. I see some similarities...but more in the way they grow on you over time as opposed to 1 for 1 personality characteristics. Stannis is a lot more introspective and personally complex than Vegeta.

They are both favorite characters of mine. I still have to make that Vegeta music video.

[Ramsay Gimp]

This humanized Stannis more than any scene on the show so far. I agree with Elio's review, it was the best stuff so far featuring the Dragonstone gang (including the Blackwater)