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Rob with one B

[BOOK SPOILERS] On weddings

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Based on Tywin's announcements to Tyrion and Cersei in "Kissed By Fire", and judging by the official synopsis already posted ("Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters."), I strongly believe that Tyrion and Sansa's wedding will take place in "The Climb". After the cliffhanger in "Kissed By Fire", there doesn't seem to me to be any point in holding off.

Which leads us to contemplate the order of the next two weddings. The episode synopsis for "Second Sons" tells us "King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together." Naturally, this would suggest that the Tyrion-Sansa wedding would take place this episode, but based on what I've written above, I can't believe that there would be such a gap between Tywin's ultimatum and Tyrion's wedding.

Instead, I believe that "Second Sons" will show the wedding of Joffrey and Margaery. Now, does this mean that it will be the Purple Wedding and we will see Joffrey's death? I don't think so, as "Second Sons" takes place before "The Rains of Castamere" (and I think we can all agree, this WILL be the episode with the Red Wedding). I'm open to the possibility that we may see Joffrey die at his wedding in "Second Sons" to give the audience a rise before bringing them crashing down again in "The Rains of Castamere", but I doubt it.

What I believe we will see instead in "Second Sons" will be some sort of juxtaposition after the wedding between Tyrion and Sansa and Joffrey and Margaery, the latter two ending up in some sort of situation that finally drives the Tyrells to assassinate Joffrey. It's already been suggested here that Joffrey will order some sort of celebration after he hears of the Red Wedding. It's my belief that Joffrey will die in "Mhysa" at this celebration, exultant and triumphant, and then will die writhing and choking on the floor before all his court, a fitting end.

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I was hoping for PW to happen this season, but its going to happen next.

T+S will happen in Second Sons, this coming episode "The Climb" will probably feature Tyrion talking to Shae about it...

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I agree, the T+S wedding might be episode 7 and we have episode 6 for the arrangements, Tyrion talking to Shae, Sansa talking to the Tyrells and being miserable, etc.

In the books this wedding and the PW were quite some time apart, which makes me believe the PW will be next season. I think we will get some awkward married couple life from Tyrion and Sansa before they are drawn apart again.

I am wondering though what reason they will give to wait with the planned Cersei/Loras wedding. Of course he won't be able to marry her once he's in the KG, but that doesn't happen until after the PW, right? Or will Cersei use this to suggest him for the KW in the first place? (I don't quite remember from the books)

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No, Loras became Kingsguard right after Blackwater in the books, if I recall correctly. He joined the KG to protect Margaery from Joffrey, also to acquiesce himself from the duty of marriage due to being gay.

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Yeah PW definitely not until at least mid-way through season 4. They still haven't cast the Red Viper yet as far as we know, and it a'int a royal wedding without the Martels. I haven't even heard if Mace Tyrell is planned to show up at all this season. i'd imagine he would like to be at his daughter's wedding.

In any case, i wonder how they plan on handling this Cersei/Lorras proposal. I'd imagine that the only way out is getting Loras into the KG, but how will Cersei manage that? She'll have to convince her dickhead son. Might be a good awkward conversation.

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Yeah, I think that PW cannot happen until we meet the Red Viper, and if "Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters" is true, it could mean that they foil the Cersei/Loras marriage, perhaps by Loras joining the Kingsguard and someone (Tyrion probably :cool4: ) suggests bringing the Martells to the fold via justice for Elia and her children as well as the Cersei marriage. I can't wait for those scenes, I really dislike Cersei as a character (like everyone else) so it'll be awesome-sauce all around.

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Yeah, I think that PW cannot happen until we meet the Red Viper, and if "Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters" is true, it could mean that they foil the Cersei/Loras marriage, perhaps by Loras joining the Kingsguard and someone (Tyrion probably :cool4: ) suggests bringing the Martells to the fold via justice for Elia and her children as well as the Cersei marriage. I can't wait for those scenes, I really dislike Cersei as a character (like everyone else) so it'll be awesome-sauce all around.

Hmm... Cersei plots to rid herself of the marriage to Loras by getting him in the KG; Tywin is pissed that she went behind her back, so Tyrion suggests that Doran happens to have a young, unwed son in the person of Quentyn, and Tywin takes the bate...with the Viper arriving next season with Doran's reply dealing with something along the lines of "he's promised to another" without giving a reason why.

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No, Loras became Kingsguard right after Blackwater in the books, if I recall correctly. He joined the KG to protect Margaery from Joffrey, also to acquiesce himself from the duty of marriage due to being gay.

well once he discovers he's to be married to Cersei I bet he joins the Kingsguard to get out of it

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Yeah PW definitely not until at least mid-way through season 4. They still haven't cast the Red Viper yet as far as we know, and it a'int a royal wedding without the Martels. I haven't even heard if Mace Tyrell is planned to show up at all this season. i'd imagine he would like to be at his daughter's wedding.

In any case, i wonder how they plan on handling this Cersei/Lorras proposal. I'd imagine that the only way out is getting Loras into the KG, but how will Cersei manage that? She'll have to convince her dickhead son. Might be a good awkward conversation.

Yeah, I think that PW cannot happen until we meet the Red Viper, and if "Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters" is true, it could mean that they foil the Cersei/Loras marriage, perhaps by Loras joining the Kingsguard and someone (Tyrion probably :cool4: ) suggests bringing the Martells to the fold via justice for Elia and her children as well as the Cersei marriage. I can't wait for those scenes, I really dislike Cersei as a character (like everyone else) so it'll be awesome-sauce all around.

I've insisted before that they don't need Oberyn and Mace. If the best anyone can come up with is that he won't miss his daughters wedding or Oberyn is on the trial then that's not very convincing. The show is obviously alright with writing out characters and changing things. Oberyn is important for the trial but Mace adds nothing. There have already been small council meetings without them, which means they are effectively if not literally written out.

I am very skeptical we'll see Joff's reckoning this season but...

Based on Tywin's announcements to Tyrion and Cersei in "Kissed By Fire", and judging by the official synopsis already posted ("Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters."), I strongly believe that Tyrion and Sansa's wedding will take place in "The Climb". After the cliffhanger in "Kissed By Fire", there doesn't seem to me to be any point in holding off.

Which leads us to contemplate the order of the next two weddings. The episode synopsis for "Second Sons" tells us "King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together." Naturally, this would suggest that the Tyrion-Sansa wedding would take place this episode, but based on what I've written above, I can't believe that there would be such a gap between Tywin's ultimatum and Tyrion's wedding.

Instead, I believe that "Second Sons" will show the wedding of Joffrey and Margaery. Now, does this mean that it will be the Purple Wedding and we will see Joffrey's death? I don't think so, as "Second Sons" takes place before "The Rains of Castamere" (and I think we can all agree, this WILL be the episode with the Red Wedding). I'm open to the possibility that we may see Joffrey die at his wedding in "Second Sons" to give the audience a rise before bringing them crashing down again in "The Rains of Castamere", but I doubt it.

What I believe we will see instead in "Second Sons" will be some sort of juxtaposition after the wedding between Tyrion and Sansa and Joffrey and Margaery, the latter two ending up in some sort of situation that finally drives the Tyrells to assassinate Joffrey. It's already been suggested here that Joffrey will order some sort of celebration after he hears of the Red Wedding. It's my belief that Joffrey will die in "Mhysa" at this celebration, exultant and triumphant, and then will die writhing and choking on the floor before all his court, a fitting end.

I believe it could be either this order, or else we have RW in Second Sons and the PW or just celebration in The Rains of Castamere, with the title being both a red herring for book readers, a reference to the aftermath and explaining what the song is about, and the fact that is was played a lot at the PW. Really hoping for either of these.

Mace and Oberyn can wait. Mace could just not show up ever also. He really hasn't done anything in books of major importance

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They've at least mentioned Mace a bunch of times this season. I suppose they could figure something out by the time they adapt ADWD re: Mace on the Small Council.

As for Oberyn, IMO he is critical to the story line. I don't see why they would make up some other character fighting for Tyrion against the Mountain. And to add, the Sand Snakes appear likely to play a bigger role in TWOW and beyond. Why would they make up a different father for them when they have an amazing character in Oberyn already?

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Based on Tywin's announcements to Tyrion and Cersei in "Kissed By Fire", and judging by the official synopsis already posted ("Tywin plans strategic unions for the Lannisters."), I strongly believe that Tyrion and Sansa's wedding will take place in "The Climb". After the cliffhanger in "Kissed By Fire", there doesn't seem to me to be any point in holding off.

Which leads us to contemplate the order of the next two weddings. The episode synopsis for "Second Sons" tells us "King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together." Naturally, this would suggest that the Tyrion-Sansa wedding would take place this episode, but based on what I've written above, I can't believe that there would be such a gap between Tywin's ultimatum and Tyrion's wedding.

We already know that "Sansa frets about her prospects" in episode 7, so she's not getting married in episode 6.

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They'll have Oberyn (and Dorne) introduced in S4, and they'll have PW in S4, as well I'm sure of it.

They obviously don't wanna introduce too many characters at once, but Dorne is the one kingdom they've not really explored yet so I can see it being next on the agenda.

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As for Oberyn, IMO he is critical to the story line. I don't see why they would make up some other character fighting for Tyrion against the Mountain. And to add, the Sand Snakes appear likely to play a bigger role in TWOW and beyond. Why would they make up a different father for them when they have an amazing character in Oberyn already?

They could just use Bronn. Would be more emotional, and negates the need to cast another actor.

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*facepalm*

OK, what's the issue here? They havent even mentioned Elia yet, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

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OK, what's the issue here? They havent even mentioned Elia yet, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

The main issue is that it would create a snowball effect. They will probably consider that side of the story only in season 4, when we are well rid of Robb Stark and company. This is the main reason why we won't have PW in this season.

This is TV. It is common in multiple season shows to have radically different plots being introduced in new seasons. It will detract the show, but, honestly, the source material already does that in books 4 and 5.

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They've namechecked Mace Tyrell multiple times this season so it's inevitable that he will become part of the story next season. If that's the case, I don't see how they don't have him around for the PW. He's a character that, if they wished to, they could have simply written out. But since he's appearing, I would think that he'd be in King's Landing in order to attend his daughter's wedding.

I guess we can always find ways that the PW happens this season but the overwhelming evidence points to that not being the case. The only thing you could possibly cling to is the fact that they are talking a lot about the upcoming royal wedding this season. But when you're splitting the book up, some of the things you introduce aren't going to be resolved by the end of the season. Yes, they're talking about the wedding but that's no different than the books where the betrothal, engagement and upcoming wedding is always in the conversation at King's Landing from the start of ASoS until when it takes place close to the end of the book.

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