[BOOK SPOILERS] On weddings

[JMJ]

They could just use Bronn. Would be more emotional, and negates the need to cast another actor.

I'm not quite a book purist, but that would (a) change the story way too much - you're saying they will kill off Bronn? And to boot, there's no Sand Snake revenge desire? And (B) it would come off as lazy writing to have Bronn be the go-to trial by combat guy. We already got his sneaky tire out the armored guy strategy. Another Bronn fight would be dull, IMO.

[fuseprime]

I'm not quite a book purist, but that would (a) change the story way too much - you're saying they will kill off Bronn? And to boot, there's no Sand Snake revenge desire? And ( B) it would come off as lazy writing to have Bronn be the go-to trial by combat guy. We already got his sneaky tire out the armored guy strategy. Another Bronn fight would be dull, IMO.

Sorry if my thoughts seem to jump around a lot haha.

Who's to say Bronn doesn't play a bigger role later on in TWoW or ADoS? They took time off with Theon, and Rickon & Osha, and Davos. Yes, I know 2/3 of those characters (I consider R&O to be one "character") are POVs, Yes, Ser Bronn of the Blackwater is just a sellsword, but he could perhaps become a player again.

If they do ultimately (which I personally do NOT think will happen) decide to kill off Bronn and NOT introduce Oberyn, then that will put to rest that Bronn will have any more impact on the story. "It is known" that GRRM has told D&D certain themes concerning the main characters in the event that he dies before completing ASoIaF.

I like TV Bronn more than book Bronn, and I know a lot of my Unsullied friends put Bronn in their top 5 characters. I will miss Bronn not being around for the next few seasons, but who knows what's going to happen.

[dttljs123]

They can't rush the Purple Wedding into season three, it will ruin alot of things down the line, for instance, Where is Oberyn Martell and the Dornishmen? The Red Viper needs to show and demand the justice for Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys. The Mountain has just disappeared into the Seven Kingdoms, no real defined location in the show. The planning of strategic unions is going to be a failure, Tyrion will wed Sansa as he is supposed but no one wants Cersei so she will stay put. Tyrion will marry Sansa in Second Sons, the title fits because he is Tywin's second son.

[Logodnica]

...snip....

In any case, i wonder how they plan on handling this Cersei/Lorras proposal. I'd imagine that the only way out is getting Loras into the KG, but how will Cersei manage that? She'll have to convince her dickhead son. Might be a good awkward conversation.

I think we'll finally see Cersei do some effective manipulation of her son which will show that she is still a dangerous political player. She'll prob work into conversation how she'll be obedient to her father and marry again. Then watch how Joffrey goes bats$&) bc someone is doing something out of his control.

[Maelys]

I wonder if Bronn could replace Osmund (or another) Kettleblack?

I'd rather they didn't do this though.

[Jorah the Explorer]

I admit, Bronn fighting for Tyrion did cross my mind as a possibility and I am ashamed of it. That would be really bad. The Red Viper is the best new character that has yet to be cast. In fact, he's probably the only good character not yet revealed (excepting Manderly?), and certainly the only interesting one to come out of Dorne.

[LordStoneheart]

They can't rush the Purple Wedding into season three, it will ruin alot of things down the line, for instance, Where is Oberyn Martell and the Dornishmen? The Red Viper needs to show and demand the justice for Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys. The Mountain has just disappeared into the Seven Kingdoms, no real defined location in the show. The planning of strategic unions is going to be a failure, Tyrion will wed Sansa as he is supposed but no one wants Cersei so she will stay put. Tyrion will marry Sansa in Second Sons, the title fits because he is Tywin's second son.

Why can't this happen if, lets just say, the PW is end of season or end of episode nine? He could come to King's Landing to fill one of two vacant small council seats. Think about it this way. Tyrion will be on trial and Varys disappears during this time. That's two seats open. Mace and Oberyn, if they even need to be introduced this early. If S4 starts with Tyrion being in a cell for the murder, Oberyn could still be introduced by seeking him out, introducing himself (in a sense, since they've met when Tyrion was an infant), tell Tyrion why he wants to fight for him, and by episode five be killed. Based on the fact that a lot of Oberyn's scenes are already too late to cast, even his betrothal to Cercei in strictly book terms, he does not have much else besides fighting for Tyrion. He's not on the small council this season whereas in the book he's been in it and been talked about for a while now.

They've at least mentioned Mace a bunch of times this season. I suppose they could figure something out by the time they adapt ADWD re: Mace on the Small Council.

Also, if you're going to use the logic that Mace has to be introduced because they keep mentioning him, you also have to accept or respect the argument/speculation that the PW will happen sooner rather than later because it's really the only plot point in King's Landing. Almost literally the only talked about plot point besides Sansa's marriage prospects and possible escape with Littlefinger. There's been almost nothing else mentioned besides the wedding. It's the only thing they really have Olenna talk about.

I honestly won't be convinced either way at this point... I'm just going to watch the arguments about it until it does or does not happen. It's actually pretty entertaining.

[Tyryan Lannister]

They've namechecked Mace Tyrell multiple times this season so it's inevitable that he will become part of the story next season. If that's the case, I don't see how they don't have him around for the PW. He's a character that, if they wished to, they could have simply written out. But since he's appearing, I would think that he'd be in King's Landing in order to attend his daughter's wedding.

I guess we can always find ways that the PW happens this season but the overwhelming evidence points to that not being the case. The only thing you could possibly cling to is the fact that they are talking a lot about the upcoming royal wedding this season. But when you're splitting the book up, some of the things you introduce aren't going to be resolved by the end of the season. Yes, they're talking about the wedding but that's no different than the books where the betrothal, engagement and upcoming wedding is always in the conversation at King's Landing from the start of ASoS until when it takes place close to the end of the book.

Exactly. And season 4 is going to focus on the up and coming trial, Sansa's journey to the Eyrie, and the aftermath of the RW. The PW is likely going to open the season (ie Episode 1) or be Episode 3, after they've spent 1&2 reintroducing the storylines and getting the new characters and storylines in place, like they did with this season

[Q the Cat]

I tend to agree and expect the PW to happen in Season 4. It's one too many weddings to squeeze into the last half of this season.

Think about it 3 weddings in 4 or 5 episodes? No, not even a day time soap opera would do that.

[Q the Cat]

I have had a theory that T+S will happen in episode 7, primarily due to its title "The Bear and the Maiden Fair".

Yes, I know this title has us all thinking about Brienne in Harrenhall. However, D&D have given us titles that are double entendre before. Episode 4 is one such example. "Kissed By Fire" obviously refers to Ygritte (& Jon), but could also be a reference to Beric Dondarion's sword.

So, we'll see what happens. I'm hoping it *is* in episode 7 because that's the one that GRRM wrote.

[Tom son of Tom]

I don't care what anybody says. If the Red Viper is left out I will be pissed.

[King Tommen]

I have had a theory that T+S will happen in episode 7, primarily due to its title "The Bear and the Maiden Fair".

Yes, I know this title has us all thinking about Brienne in Harrenhall. However, D&D have given us titles that are double entendre before. Episode 4 is one such example. "Kissed By Fire" obviously refers to Ygritte (& Jon), but could also be a reference to Beric Dondarion's sword.

So, we'll see what happens. I'm hoping it *is* in episode 7 because that's the one that GRRM wrote.

Right from the synopsis for Episode 8: "King’s Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together."

So unless you have the PW happening before the RW (a massive, massive deviation) or you know of another wedding taking place in King's Landing, Tyrion/Sansa is in E8.

[LordStoneheart]

Right from the synopsis for Episode 8: "King’s Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together."

So unless you have the PW happening before the RW (a massive, massive deviation) or you know of another wedding taking place in King's Landing, Tyrion/Sansa is in E8.

I have a feeling those synopses could be false to throw people off. Just because they know book fans and probably a lot of nonbook fans will be searching for spoilers. Frankly I think the lack of knowledge we have of some events is quite telling also and not just a sign they won't happen.

[King Tommen]

I have a feeling those synopses could be false to throw people off. Just because they know book fans and probably a lot of nonbook fans will be searching for spoilers. Frankly I think the lack of knowledge we have of some events is quite telling also and not just a sign they won't happen.

They don't write the synopses to "throw people off", they put them there to tell you general high level plot points of an episode. They are essentially spoilers for book fans especially since they can extrapolate much more meaning from those lines than others would because of our knowledge of events. There has never been one released for this show that contains a line that has not come to pass.

You aren't really supposed to read them until the most recent episode has taken place, but fans on the internet are spoiler-whores and can't help themselves. That's when it's happening. There's no trick, believe me.

[LordStoneheart]

They don't write the synopses to "throw people off", they put them there to tell you general high level plot points of an episode. They are essentially spoilers for book fans especially since they can extrapolate much more meaning from those lines than others would because of our knowledge of events. There has never been one released for this show that contains a line that has not come to pass.

You aren't really supposed to read them until the most recent episode has taken place, but fans on the internet are spoiler-whores and can't help themselves. That's when it's happening. There's no trick, believe me.

Are you saying there's no possiblity it could be misleading? The end of Ep 5 sounds just like the first line of the synopsis of Ep 6. It really wouldn't surprise me that they would deliberately mislead. Like you said, fans on the internet are spoiler-whores. Don't you think the producers know that? Would you put it past them to try and throw the audience off? I have a feeling that if Ep 9 really is the RW, the synopsis is not going to match what the episode says, otherwise that's too much of a giveaway on their part. Yes, spoilers for it exists elsewhere, but not directly from the show. D&D never really talk about the RW, they've only hinted that season three is where they want to get to because of a big moment.

Also, this might be a little bit too far for a TV show, but I could see them filming fake scenes to really throw people off. scene just real enough to make sure its enough of a surprise.

[King Tommen]

The Sansa/Tyrion wedding is not a surprise (Tyrion was told about it in E5 for crying out loud). Why would they try and fool anyone as to what episode it takes place in? That makes absolutely no sense.

You're right in saying that they are going to try and downplay the RW but you're still going to see a line about in the E9 synopsis (it will assuredly be something very nondescript like "Robb and Catleyn arrive at the Twins to meet the Frey's" or "Robb and Catelyn attend Edmure's wedding"). But they're not going to outright lie about what happens in the synopsis.

The E8 synopsis says in black and white that King's Landing hosts a wedding. That means there will be a wedding in King's Landing in that episode. You can twist yourself in knots to try and find a way to say that this doesn't refer to Tyrion and Sansa but there is no other valid option really.

We already got confirmation as far back as last Fall on WiC.net (who are always 100% with their reports) that the Tyrion/Sansa wedding would be taking place in E8. They certainly could have moved scenes back or forward an episode or two but the Tyrion/Sansa wedding is not just one scene, you'd be cannibalizing a good part of an episode to move it out of there. And any faint hope that it could still happen was put to rest when they released the synopsis that says it in no uncertain terms.

I appreciate you have a theory because of an Episode title but it's not based on anything other than that. Perhaps if part of your theory hinges on the fact that the producers may have filmed a bunch of fake scenes for an event that's they're not trying to keep a secret is a good indication that the theory isn't really solid.

[LordStoneheart]

Always 100%? That seems a bit unlikely, but maybe... I don't visit the site a lot.

And I still insist that a synopis does not have to be true to what might happen. More than likely it will but is there a reason we should take it to be completely true with no question? They have already been secretive with the "Boy" character, five episodes in and still no *official* confirmation even though fans figured it out long before. They want to keep things secret. Why can't this include lying with a synopsis or fake scenes for leaks?

Stuff like that isn't exactly unheard of in television. Dallas did it, and the Simpsons did it (though I guess that doesn't count since they were parodying when Dallas did it.)

I'm just saying, why not be skepitcal of the synopsis? Or why just assume they're true?

I do really want all three weddings to be this season, I'm starting to lean more towards PW in S4, but I'm open to all evidence. I've read almost all of it and I don't think there's a good conclusive answer yet.

[King Tommen]

Putting aside everything else, there has never in the history of the show over the course of 2.5 seasons been an episode that has not had every single line of the synopsis take place in the episode it has described. So what you are suggesting would be something they would never have done before and it would be done so as to blatantly lie about which episode an event that everyone knows about will occur. I have no idea why they would go to so much trouble in order to make people think an event which is not a surprise is going to happen in one episode if they were putting it in another episode.

I don't know what the Ramsay plotline has to do with this debate. Of course they're being secretive about it, it's a secret that they don't want revealed until closer to the RW. That's why any description (official or unofficial) of Iwan Rheon is purposely vague. Tyrion marrying Sansa is not a secret, they've already revealed it's happening to the audience in the last episode so there is absolutely no need for subterfuge.

And if you want to believe that the PW is happening this season, you can do so (although I think you're going to be severely disappointed on that count as well). Whether Sansa or Tyrion get married in E7 or E8 doesn't really impact that speculation. I would think the very real fact that the RW is in E9 is probably your biggest impediment to having this theory be borne out. Sansa/Tyrion's episode placement is fairly irrelevant in comparison. Are you suggesting they're putting the RW in E8? Because that would be outright insanity.

[Q the Cat]

I wasn't aware of the wic.net report that T+S happens in episode 8. And I just read the westeros.org guide which does explain why you are so convinced that T+S happens in episode 8. Nevertheless, it's still possible. Especially since some of the episodes' names were changed in the recent weeks - certainly after the wic.net report, I'd wager.

[King Tommen]

Well the WiC.net report was back in August or September (when S3 was being filmed) so I'm fairly certain the episode name changes that took place a few weeks ago were not because of that. What happens when they are in the final editing stages and putting together the completed episodes is that they may feel like they have to shuffle a scene here and there to a different episode for timing or flow or whatever. What it appears happened for E7 (which is the episode GRRM wrote) is that they altered the title three times before settling on "The Bear and the Maiden Fair". GRRM gave away the whole thing when he announced at that time on his blog that he lost a title but he gained a bear (he used lots of exclamation points indicating his excitement level). This was an indication that they had moved the Bear Pit scene to his episode and hence the title change.

I will say that even in the cases where a change like this has occurred, the synopses have changed as well to be accurate. For example, they must have moved Arya's first scenes with the BwB from the 1st episode to the 2nd. The original synopses for the first five episodes came out a few weeks ahead of the start of the season and for E1, one of the parts stated "Arya meets the Brotherhood without Banners". Then a couple weeks before the season started (after some changes had been made), the synopses came out again with the same description moved to E2, which is when we first saw Arya appear.