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Rob with one B

[BOOK SPOILERS] On weddings

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I'm sorry, but how is the RW not a surprise? The show is for those who haven't read the book too, and not everyone looks up spoilers.

And looking at the other season episode blurbs, they're intentionally vague. That's not exactly untrue, but that means they do try to mislead while hinting around. For instance "Jon proves himself to Qhorin." That isn't exactly "Jon kills Qhorin to infiltrate the Wildlings." It's also a little bit untrue because Jon never really 'proves' himself to Qhorin other than having the ability to realize it was a ruse. If we want to interpret the Second Sons outside of the box, King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together doesn't necessarily mean 'the wedding is theirs, therefore they will spend their first night together.' It could mean we have the PW and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night in a cell being accused of murder, which would be a drastic change but there have been many others already so I wouldn't discount it. Or alternatively it could mean that they spend the night together beforehand because they're at this point already married, and then the PW commences. Thus, throwing the spoiler-reading audience off.

I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that a television crew could or would lie about things, especially when at the end of the day the network execs are in this for the money; they're not in it to appeal to book fans.

Either way, based on the synopses we do have it appears there is reshuffling of material that's not exactly like the books. I'm not clinging to the belief that the PW will be in S4, I'm keeping an open mind about the information we do have and trying to see what may not be clear intentionally.

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I never said anything about the RW being anything but a surprise. Of course it is, that's why we haven't even seen the synopsis of E9 yet. The description will be very vague and nondescript but it will be very clear to book readers about what is going to happen.

It's even more clear when we read the synopsis for E8. Unless you honestly believe that the show will screw around with one of the most important timelines that occurs in the books (the PW happening after the RW), then a wedding taking place in King's Landing in E8 can only be referring to Tyrion and Sansa's.

I have no idea why you're saying on one hand that the "network execs" are in it for the money, not to appeal to book fans and then saying that there is some grand conspiracy in place to somehow "fool" the book fans into thinking a known (and not surprise) event like Tyrion and Sansa's wedding is happening in a different episode than they're saying it is.

If they don't give a shit about the book fans, why bother going to the trouble of hiding what's going to happen?

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Do you know what the original title of GRRM's episode was?

I'm glad he got the bear - that's going to be an excellent scene.

For what it's worth, the reason I thought perhaps T+S would happen in that episode is strictly that Tyrion is a bit of a bear, more teddy bear than grizzly, but bear nonetheless. And of course Sansa is a maid. Either way, we are most certainly getting a wedding in 7 or 8 - perhaps it starts in 7 and the wedding ends in 8. We'll be finding out on May 12th.

Now I'm back to reading more Dunk & Egg .... :read:

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Speaking of weddings, I'm thinking Margaery is the reason Loras gets his white cloak. The HBO Margaery has more influence over Joffrey than the book Margaery (at least as I interpretted her).

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Speaking of weddings, I'm thinking Margaery is the reason Loras gets his white cloak. The HBO Margaery has more influence over Joffrey than the book Margaery (at least as I interpretted her).

What is Show Margarey's motivation to deep six her own house's plot and deny Loras Winterfell?

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I see two compelling reasons:

1.) She is fully aware of her brother's sexual orientation and wants him to be happy.

2.) She needs him in KL to protect her from Joff.

Also, in the show - this is Tywin's plot, not the Tyrell's.

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I see two compelling reasons:

1.) She is fully aware of her brother's sexual orientation and wants him to be happy.

2.) She needs him in KL to protect her from Joff.

Also, in the show - this is Tywin's plot, not the Tyrell's.

I think you misunderstood '96Buck's comment. What reason does Margarey have to put Loras in the KG when she and the QoT said to Sansa's face they want her to marry Loras. They have no idea about Tywin's plot to marry Tyrion to her YET. They are still unaware of it.

Now, once they realize what is happening and Sansa has been married to Tyrion then I could see the possibility of Margarey wanting Loras in the KG. On second thought it still kinda doesnt make sense because he is the heir of Highgarden in the show so none of the Tyrell's would jeopardize that.

I am thinking he gets put in the KG after they have rejected Tywin's offer for Cersei to marry Loras. Tywin does it / tells Joffrey to so that he shows that he is still in control and not to give an inch to the QoT. The show has them standing off it seems when QoT breaks his quill.

Maybe he does it because he really loves that quill. It's possible

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I never said anything about the RW being anything but a surprise. Of course it is, that's why we haven't even seen the synopsis of E9 yet. The description will be very vague and nondescript but it will be very clear to book readers about what is going to happen.

It's even more clear when we read the synopsis for E8. Unless you honestly believe that the show will screw around with one of the most important timelines that occurs in the books (the PW happening after the RW), then a wedding taking place in King's Landing in E8 can only be referring to Tyrion and Sansa's.

I have no idea why you're saying on one hand that the "network execs" are in it for the money, not to appeal to book fans and then saying that there is some grand conspiracy in place to somehow "fool" the book fans into thinking a known (and not surprise) event like Tyrion and Sansa's wedding is happening in a different episode than they're saying it is.

If they don't give a shit about the book fans, why bother going to the trouble of hiding what's going to happen?

I don't think there's a fucking conspiracy, I'm just not taking the spoilers to be completely true when it's possible they're not. I don't take everything I read on the internet to be a fucking fact without some skepticism. If you can't get it through your head that sometimes some people in this world tend to lie or mislead about things I have nothing else to say to you except that if you give me your credit card information and social security number I can get you inside information on how to win the lottery.

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Just to be clear, episode synopses are not "spoilers", they are the descriptions of the episodes released by the show to tell the audience a very high level listing of the events set to take place in the episode. They're the details that show up on the TV guide listing or when you press "Info" on your remote when looking at an episode. They aren't just for internet-only viewing, it's an official, HBO-sanctioned description of the episode. Some of the descriptions might be a little cheeky or vague but they don't lie. If they say that a wedding takes place in King's Landing that episode, then that's what will happen.

Book readers treat them as spoilers because they can infer much more information from these little pieces than the general audience. So that's why you treat them differently than some kind of second or third hand report leaked onto the internet.

I'm not trying to be mean here. It's just that I don't think you're fully comprehending where we as fans can truly find information about events set to take place on the show. This is one of the ways that we can confirm some of the other theories that are out there in terms of when things happen.

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I don't think there's a fucking conspiracy, I'm just not taking the spoilers to be completely true when it's possible they're not. I don't take everything I read on the internet to be a fucking fact without some skepticism. If you can't get it through your head that sometimes some people in this world tend to lie or mislead about things I have nothing else to say to you except that if you give me your credit card information and social security number I can get you inside information on how to win the lottery.

Lets just Occam's Razor this thing: The synopsis says some events happen in a particular episode, therefore the said events happen in that episode. Done.

I was kind of envisioning something very cruel for Sansa, meaning that she wouldn't know that she's marrying Tyrion until Loras comes to pick her up to go to her wedding, wearing the white cloak of kingsguard. I have nothing against Sansa, but I have nothing to say in her defense either, so let her suffer :devil: :devil:

Too bad this is unlikely to happen. Maybe it's just as good when they're getting her a new robe and Cersei rubs it in her face...

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Here's the synopsis for Baelor according to IMDb:

Robb goes to war against the Lannisters. Jon finds himself struggling on deciding if his place is with Robb or the Night's Watch. Drogo has fallen ill from a fresh battle wound. Daenerys is desperate to save him.

Production kept pretty tight wraps on spoilers about Poor Dead Ned so I'm not sure why people think that it is impossible for PW this season based on HBO synopses.

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Because it hasnt leaked from set. Such a huge event should have leaked if shot... look at RW ou GW...

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If PW happens (high unlikely but for argument's sake), it would be in E10 since the RW is in E9. They haven't released the synopsis for either E9 or E10 yet so there are no clues that can be derived from that yet.

And for Baelor, the spoiler for book fans was in the episode title (just like this season's E9 title "The Rains of Castamere" is your dead giveaway), you don't need to say much more than that really.

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I think you misunderstood '96Buck's comment. What reason does Margarey have to put Loras in the KG when she and the QoT said to Sansa's face they want her to marry Loras. They have no idea about Tywin's plot to marry Tyrion to her YET. They are still unaware of it.

I didn't misunderstand '96Buck's comment, which isn't a comment. It's a question. Which I answered - perhaps not the best answer. It's challenging to 'predict' the show after reading the books. I know why/how Loras achieves a white cloak based on the book. It's tricky to address all of the intrigues of GRRM without all of the characters to pull it off.

Now, once they realize what is happening and Sansa has been married to Tyrion then I could see the possibility of Margarey wanting Loras in the KG. On second thought it still kinda doesnt make sense because he is the heir of Highgarden in the show so none of the Tyrell's would jeopardize that.

I am thinking he gets put in the KG after they have rejected Tywin's offer for Cersei to marry Loras. Tywin does it / tells Joffrey to so that he shows that he is still in control and not to give an inch to the QoT. The show has them standing off it seems when QoT breaks his quill.

Maybe he does it because he really loves that quill. It's possible

I like your theory of appointing Loras as a 'pay back' for rejecting the Cersei offer. But, where did you read about the quill???

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I like your theory of appointing Loras as a 'pay back' for rejecting the Cersei offer. But, where did you read about the quill???

It wasn't what I read, it was what I saw in a preview for the next episode.

For some reason I could not find the full thing showing that it is Olenna at 0:28 breaking the quill. I did find this image of her holding it though: http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/9632

So, of course it was really a joke about the quill but you never know.

The more I thought about the "payback" theory of putting Loras in KG, the more I leaned towards it actually being Cersei be the one responsible for the act. But I can't put anything past Tywin. Since they have changed things from the book it makes for interesting theories regarding the timing of Loras in the KG.

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I think this is how its going to play out:

-QoT furiously speaks to Tywin about rejecting the Cersei & Loras offer (she wouldn't want his influence and presence in Highgarden)

-Tywin subtly threatens her family and Margery perhaps alluding to Elia & Rhaegar (gotta start bringing in Dorne)

-QoT and Margery manipulate Joffrey to appoint Loras in response to said threats

-some interesting Tywin and Cersei dialogue on the Tyrells influence, Tyrion recommends bringing in the Martells to balance out the Tyrell growing power, one of them can marry Cersei and inviting them to the wedding in good faith

I doubt Cersei will be the one to put Loras on KG, at this point in the show she has no power over Joffrey and having her manipulate him to this would counterbalance her power arc. Also, I don't believe Obryn is actually married besides his paramour so even he could be the new potential husband.

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I think this is how its going to play out:

-QoT furiously speaks to Tywin about rejecting the Cersei & Loras offer (she wouldn't want his influence and presence in Highgarden)

-Tywin subtly threatens her family and Margery perhaps alluding to Elia & Rhaegar (gotta start bringing in Dorne)

-QoT and Margery manipulate Joffrey to appoint Loras in response to said threats

-some interesting Tywin and Cersei dialogue on the Tyrells influence, Tyrion recommends bringing in the Martells to balance out the Tyrell growing power, one of them can marry Cersei and inviting them to the wedding in good faith

I doubt Cersei will be the one to put Loras on KG, at this point in the show she has no power over Joffrey and having her manipulate him to this would counterbalance her power arc. Also, I don't believe Obryn is actually married besides his paramour so even he could be the new potential husband.

Exactly, Oberyn isn't married, right out of the books. Though he (or was it his paramour, whose name I don't remember) remarks how horny it get him (or her, I really need to re-read the series...) thinking about Cersei in their bed, their being Oberyn and the paramour.

I do hope your predictions are at least somewhat correct, because that's what I want to see.

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I think this is how its going to play out:

-QoT furiously speaks to Tywin about rejecting the Cersei & Loras offer (she wouldn't want his influence and presence in Highgarden)

-Tywin subtly threatens her family and Margery perhaps alluding to Elia & Rhaegar (gotta start bringing in Dorne)

-QoT and Margery manipulate Joffrey to appoint Loras in response to said threats

-some interesting Tywin and Cersei dialogue on the Tyrells influence, Tyrion recommends bringing in the Martells to balance out the Tyrell growing power, one of them can marry Cersei and inviting them to the wedding in good faith

I doubt Cersei will be the one to put Loras on KG, at this point in the show she has no power over Joffrey and having her manipulate him to this would counterbalance her power arc. Also, I don't believe Obryn is actually married besides his paramour so even he could be the new potential husband.

Ok...most of that makes sense except for the part about Margarey and QoT making Loras into KG. Why would they do that? He is the heir of Highgarden. And if they have so much sway over Joffrey then there is no need to put Loras in KG for him to protect Margarey.

And I don't think Tywin would threaten one of his largest allies. It would be unnecessary since the marriage of Cersei to Loras would bring the families closer but would not give Tywin much more power than he already has. He has more to lose from creating an enemy of the Tyrells by subtely threatening them than just getting back at them by putting Loras in the KG. Putting Loras in the KG can be masked as an "honor" while simultaneously robbing the Tyrells of the heir-apparent (which is what happened with Tywin and Jaime) while "threatening them" would just muck things up.

And Tywin does not muck things up. Except for his relationships with his children...

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