[BOOK SPOILERS] On weddings

[DannySpud]

Hmm, at first I was 100% sure the PW wouldn't happen this season, but now I'm not so sure. I just looked up the chapters, in the books they are extremely close together, more so than I remembered. Plus Mel is probably going to do the crazy fire leech blood thing soon, it makes that more powerful if all three "results" happen within the same season. Still, "Mhysa" obviously refers to Dany's storyline, and I doubt we'll get much Jon/Sam/Bran/Jamie/Theon in ep 9 so they've most likely got stuff to do in ep 10 as well, there probably won't be time. I think they need to save the PW for season 4, if only because after that there's not (IMO) a season's worth of content left in SoS.

[Q the Cat]

:agree: "Mhysa" refers to Dany's story line, and probably Cat's as well. Someone earlier posted that it would also apply to Cersei and used that as an argument for the PW happening this season, but i think that's a stretch.

As i said earlier, 3 back to back weddings would turn GoT into The Wedding Channel.

[King Cheops]

As i said earlier, 3 back to back weddings would turn GoT into The Wedding Channel.

Last I checked not even TLC was televising 1) a shotgun wedding of a minor, 2) a massacre of the groom's family, or 3) the poisoning of the groom. I think there's enough stuff happening at the weddings that all 3 won't be a bore.

That said I've been "converted" to the season 4 camp purely because of number of episodes remaining. As a whole most of the arguments against PW in season 3 are pretty weak.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Last I checked not even TLC was televising 1) a shotgun wedding of a minor, 2) a massacre of the groom's family, or 3) the poisoning of the groom. I think there's enough stuff happening at the weddings that all 3 won't be a bore.

That said I've been "converted" to the season 4 camp purely because of number of episodes remaining. As a whole most of the arguments against PW in season 3 are pretty weak.

For a while I thought they would actually pull it off but no Mace, no Oberyn kind of sells it being in Season 4.

[The Mighty Conch]

I am thinking he gets put in the KG after they have rejected Tywin's offer for Cersei to marry Loras. Tywin does it / tells Joffrey to so that he shows that he is still in control and not to give an inch to the QoT. The show has them standing off it seems when QoT breaks his quill.

Maybe he does it because he really loves that quill. It's possible

BOOM. That just happened.I felt so proud of myself when Tywin declared he would put Loras in the KG if the QoT rejected the offer.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

BOOM. That just happened.I felt so proud of myself when Tywin declared he would put Loras in the KG if the QoT rejected the offer.

Except the Queen of Thorns doesn't reject the offer...

[LordStoneheart]

For a while I thought they would actually pull it off but no Mace, no Oberyn kind of sells it being in Season 4.

That's the weakest evidence in my opinion. The show doesn't need them until later when they're actually relevant. If PW is in this season, and by now my hopes are gone, I still insist Oberyn and Mace are not needed. Oberyn is needed for the aftermath and Mace... He's not even relevant up to book five.

They're not in the small council meetings that have been shown and they were in the books so that tells you what the writers think of their importance.

[SpringIsTotallyOnTheWay]

Besides Oberyn, they also need to build Tyrion and Sansa's relationship and the increase in hostilities between Tyrion and Joffrey. So there simply isn't time for the PW to happen this season. I think E9 will leave a cliffhanger with the end of the RW and E10 will be the aftermath and allowing the audience to grieve. I think the end scene will be UnCat because I think the show will SHOW Thoros and Beric reviving her whereas that happened off the page in the book. Especially since they focused so much on reviving in this episode.

[The Mighty Conch]

Except the Queen of Thorns doesn't reject the offer...

I was close enough...The important thing I got right was that Tywin threatened to put Loras in the KG. So the question will be now, will he ever enter the KG in the show?

[McShrek]

I'm pretty sure the PW will be in the first few episodes of season 4.

"Mhysa" refers to Dany as well as to Cat's "resurrection" which may very well be this season's cliffhanger.

[Tyrion4President]

OK, what's the issue here? They havent even mentioned Elia yet, so I'm not sure how effective it would be.

because then you wont have Oberyn screaming "You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children."

[stiff_pirates]

Yeah PW definitely not until at least mid-way through season 4. They still haven't cast the Red Viper yet as far as we know, and it a'int a royal wedding without the Martels. I haven't even heard if Mace Tyrell is planned to show up at all this season. i'd imagine he would like to be at his daughter's wedding.

In any case, i wonder how they plan on handling this Cersei/Lorras proposal. I'd imagine that the only way out is getting Loras into the KG, but how will Cersei manage that? She'll have to convince her dickhead son. Might be a good awkward conversation.

In the episode 'Loras to Kingsguard' issue is handled by Tywin. He uses it as a threat to QoT, assuming she'll approve of the proposal or else lose the heir of Highgarden to the KG (They've dismissed Loras and Margaery's other siblings from the show it seems). QoT basically rejects the proposal by snapping the quill and suggesting Tywin is a prick, so that's how Loras ends up in the KG

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

That's the weakest evidence in my opinion. The show doesn't need them until later when they're actually relevant. If PW is in this season, and by now my hopes are gone, I still insist Oberyn and Mace are not needed. Oberyn is needed for the aftermath and Mace... He's not even relevant up to book five.

They're not in the small council meetings that have been shown and they were in the books so that tells you what the writers think of their importance.

Why the fuck would Mace Tyrell miss his daughter's wedding to become Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? Why would he and Oberyn decide to ride to KL after the wedding in enough time to be there for the entire trial? Why would anyone care about Oberyn if he has 1 conversation with Tyrion and then promptly dies?

[Buried Treasure]

The more I think of it the more I conclude that Tywin's threat to force Loras to join the KG does not make any sense. As the only son and heir to Highgarden his marriage should be even more important to the Tyrells than Margaery's - marrying her to a king raises the status of the Tyrells, marrying him well ensures the continued existance of the house. Lady Olenna holds all the cards (the armies and food supplies that the Lannisters need) and should not have put up with Tywins threat. Say no to the marriage to a woman in her 30's who has not quickened with child in the last 8 years of marriage (and thats the official, non-incest version) and call Tywin's bluff of depriving Highgarden of it's heir, and if tries to go through with it let him watch as the QoT takes both her grandchildren, and their armies and their supplies, out of the city.

[The Mighty Conch]

The more I think of it the more I conclude that Tywin's threat to force Loras to join the KG does not make any sense. As the only son and heir to Highgarden his marriage should be even more important to the Tyrells than Margaery's - marrying her to a king raises the status of the Tyrells, marrying him well ensures the continued existance of the house. Lady Olenna holds all the cards (the armies and food supplies that the Lannisters need) and should not have put up with Tywins threat. Say no to the marriage to a woman in her 30's who has not quickened with child in the last 8 years of marriage (and thats the official, non-incest version) and call Tywin's bluff of depriving Highgarden of it's heir, and if tries to go through with it let him watch as the QoT takes both her grandchildren, and their armies and their supplies, out of the city.

What do you mean it doesn't make sense?? It. Just. Happened.

Sure the QoT could withdraw her troops and her supplies but that would mean the marriage to Joffrey would be off and it would put all of their lives in danger. Not only from Tywin but from Joffrey.

They are playing the "Game of Thrones" and there is no way Margarey or any other Tyrell could end up being a part of the Royal family without doing as Tywin wishes right now. Plus I am almost positive that their troops are not all in KL. They are out in the field somewhere or in some other castle. You wouldn't be able to leave with all your troops without members of your family dying or having your force decimated.

Tywin was not bluffing. There was no reason for him to bluff.

[paddington]

They could show the RW/PW at the same time. Would give both events a nice symmetry. Robb and Joff dying at the same time. Maybe Tyrion/Sansa wedding as well, get them all done and out of the way.

Could tie in nice as well with Mel/Gendry raise and fall of kings and the leeches in the fire.

[Buried Treasure]

What do you mean it doesn't make sense?? It. Just. Happened.

Yeah, its what happened that doesn't make sense. The QoT capitutated far too easily, in the previous episode she owned Tyrion by pointing out all the ways the Lannisters need theTyrells but in this episode she totally forget all of those. She should have refused the marriage if she didn't want it, if Tywin wasn't bluffing about ordering Loras into the KG he is a fool - from a Tyrell perspective losing their heir to oaths is almost as bad as having him killed, Tywin can't afford to anger them that badly as he needs them too much.

[RedRum]

Yeah, its what happened that doesn't make sense. The QoT capitutated far too easily

Given that it seems unlikely that Cersei and Loras will actually get married, she may have a plan B for blocking the union.

[The Mighty Conch]

Yeah, its what happened that doesn't make sense. The QoT capitutated far too easily, in the previous episode she owned Tyrion by pointing out all the ways the Lannisters need theTyrells but in this episode she totally forget all of those. She should have refused the marriage if she didn't want it, if Tywin wasn't bluffing about ordering Loras into the KG he is a fool - from a Tyrell perspective losing their heir to oaths is almost as bad as having him killed, Tywin can't afford to anger them that badly as he needs them too much.

If you think about it, losing an heir to oaths is not as bad as him dying because the KG is seen as an honorable thing. If the Tyrells were to withdraw their support because Loras became a KG then no one would bat an eye when Tywin Lannister tries to destroy their army. The QoT needed to bend at that time because Tywin, unlike Tyrion, has the power to make Joffrey's marriage to Margarey not happen. Or worse. Have her executed. Margarey may have her claws into Joffrey but still he would listen to his Grandfather over her.

He is not a fool because he holds all the cards. Little do the Tyrell's know but the war with Robb will soon be over. And after that only Stannis remains and his forces currently are not even worth mentioning. So currently he doesn't actually need the Tyrell forces and could just easily turn on them. And with their daughter in hand they have to keep the supplies coming into KL as well.

I am not sure how Tywin was being foolish when he made that threat.

Given all of that. Somehow the marriage of Loras and Cersei still probably won't happen for some reason.

[JMJ]

Yeah, its what happened that doesn't make sense. The QoT capitutated far too easily, in the previous episode she owned Tyrion by pointing out all the ways the Lannisters need theTyrells but in this episode she totally forget all of those. She should have refused the marriage if she didn't want it, if Tywin wasn't bluffing about ordering Loras into the KG he is a fool - from a Tyrell perspective losing their heir to oaths is almost as bad as having him killed, Tywin can't afford to anger them that badly as he needs them too much.

The QOT's easy capitulation is what sets her up to participate in Joff's poisoning, or at least this is what it looks like the show's version of events is leading towards. It makes sense in terms of one-upping Tywin in addition to keeping the jerk Joff away from Margery. I suspect somewhere in that timeline Loras will still end up in the KG, perhaps on his own volition when he finds out he is to marry Cersei.