(BOOK SPOILERS) Nonsense

[wandering]

Think theyre doing a great job portraying Robb as the very same idiot he is in the books.

[Khal Porno]

Think theyre doing a great job portraying Robb as the very same idiot he is in the books.

Haha! But HONOR, GRIEF, etc.

[Jasta11]

They should have made it clear that the Freys have deserted him (which seems pretty damn logical to me), and that the Karstark forces were those that took the least casualties in Robb's other battles so they were more important. But then Robb,s decision to execute him makes even less sense than before, seriously, just put the man in a tower and forget him. He,s not worth losing half your standing forces.

I do agree with some that they kinda made a hash of Robb's story since Talisa. it's just hard to care when it's perfectly blatant he's digging himself in a massive hole. But then again, it was like that in the books too. I guess they need to setup the RW, but they shouldn't make Robb unlikable and stupid in the process. It's really obvious something bad will happen to him now.

To those who say that armies travel fast; the books have the exact same problem. Blackwater Bay is a serious offender, with Tywin teleporting from the Riverlands and the massive Tyrell army showing up out of friggin nowhere. People and/or information crossing the Narrow Sea seemingly in a day. Making a timeline for the books is just as hard as for the show. The producers must work with what they have.

[Montey14]

I am very disappointed with this episode. It is said, that Karstark forces are almost half of the army. I don't think Karstarks have around 9000 men. Another nonsense is, when Robb decides that he will take Casterly Rock. In this how, he just keep wandering from here to there.

After he crossed the Twins ( with Frey forces, save for four hundred garrison) and defeated Jaime ( and unlogically avoided Riverrun), he went to plunder the Westerlands. It is said that he conquered the Crag (which is very close to Casterly Rock) and can't attack on Casterly Rock, because he's short of troops. Then he goes back to Harrenhal (where he must garrison some troops), then during march to the Riverrun he said that he will join Riverrun garrison to his forces. It does not make sense, to attack Casterly Rock. He has same (even if Frey possible left him after marriage with Talisa) number of troops, maybe even fewer, as he had on Season 2.

Well in the books...his plan is much more sound...which is to enlist the Frey's and the cranogmen to take back Moat Calin from the Ironmen and take back the north....in essence leaving kings landing for another day....reconciling the fact that one sister is dead and the other married to Tyrion. I guess it's a more romanticized plot to try and take Casterly Rok and draw out the lannisters ....either way he doesn't get the chance to do neither and we know why.....so the point is mute.....they just need a backdrop as to why he needs to go back to Frey hat in hand....

[juanml82]

I guess it's also the 'leave King's Landing for another day'. Show Robb plan disregards the North and KG for an all or nothing gamble - which raises the odds.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Well in the books...his plan is much more sound...which is to enlist the Frey's and the cranogmen to take back Moat Calin from the Ironmen and take back the north....in essence leaving kings landing for another day....reconciling the fact that one sister is dead and the other married to Tyrion. I guess it's a more romanticized plot to try and take Casterly Rok and draw out the lannisters ....either way he doesn't get the chance to do neither and we know why.....so the point is mute.....they just need a backdrop as to why he needs to go back to Frey hat in hand....

The point is moot, not mute. In the books the plot to go home leads you to believe they're content to wait out winter in their strength. This plot is more like we need to take something of theirs to get back on the winning side, which would totally work if Robb wasn't so helplessly behind.

[TomBadgerlock]

Yes, it was. I already posted the quote earlier in this topic - http://asoiaf.wester...20#entry4380654

"The Karstarks are gone. Almost half our forces."

Ah, you're right! Can't believe I missed that.

[Birdsong65]

According to HBOGoT, the only confirmed losses to Robb's army is that number loyal to Karstark. What I imagine is that the writers are keeping the Frey faction with Robb, despite the marriage, but using their presence to up the ante, as in the Freys are reporting to Tywin from within Robb's camp, not Talisa as many would prefer, and plans for the RW were begun prior to the Karstark beheading. The show has made very clear Robb, at this point, has very little control of his sworn bannermen, thus the planning for something like the RW, happening within his own camp by factions who have sworn oaths/allegiances to TKotN, who accompany him to the Twinns, would be a bit of a shocker, I suppose, on screen. I prefer the book, but whatever.

The entire "take Casterly Rock" theme, to my mind, is a plot device to allow for Cat to say "Then show them how it feels to lose something they love," which is arguably another ham-fisted foreshadowing for the RW, and a doubling down on LS.

[The Mondrian Oak]

According to HBOGoT, the only confirmed losses to Robb's army is that number loyal to Karstark. What I imagine is that the writers are keeping the Frey faction with Robb, despite the marriage, but using their presence to up the ante, as in the Freys are reporting to Tywin from within Robb's camp, not Talisa as many would prefer, and plans for the RW were begun prior to the Karstark beheading. The show has made very clear Robb, at this point, has very little control of his sworn bannermen, thus the planning for something like the RW, happening within his own camp by factions who have sworn oaths/allegiances to TKotN, who accompany him to the Twinns, would be a bit of a shocker, I suppose, on screen. I prefer the book, but whatever.

The entire "take Casterly Rock" theme, to my mind, is a plot device to allow for Cat to say "Then show them how it feels to lose something they love," which is arguably another ham-fisted foreshadowing for the RW, and a doubling down on LS.

But, if the Freys are still with Robb, why did he say that "they haven't sided with the Lannisters yet"?

[Birdsong65]

But, if the Freys are still with Robb, why did he say that "they haven't sided with the Lannisters yet"?

I think that's the whole point being made here. TPTB at HBO have neither categorically confirmed nor denied the Frey faction's

allegiances at this moment. What they have made clear is that an oath was forged early in the war which was based on a future marriage of two Stark siblings to two Freys, and that Old Walder Frey makes a habit of waiting until the very last moment to declare for anyone, regardless. Also clear is the fact that Robb broke that oath, but that does not mean he lost the Frey's in his camp presently on the show. That they haven't sided with the Lannister's yet could very well be D&D allowing that the Freys haven't left Robb's camp, which could leave one to conclude that if they haven't gone, then they are still there because it serves some purpose as yet unrevealed. That purpose would be the completely unforeseeable RW.

I'm just spitballing here because, IMHO, the show has made a clusterfuck of the storyline altogether, and in vain I still try to make some sense of it.

[The Mondrian Oak]

I think that's the whole point being made here. TPTB at HBO have neither categorically confirmed nor denied the Frey faction's

allegiances at this moment. What they have made clear is that an oath was forged early in the war which was based on a future marriage of two Stark siblings to two Freys, and that Old Walder Frey makes a habit of waiting until the very last moment to declare for anyone, regardless. Also clear is the fact that Robb broke that oath, but that does not mean he lost the Frey's in his camp presently on the show. That they haven't sided with the Lannister's yet could very well be D&D allowing that the Freys haven't left Robb's camp, which could leave one to conclude that if they haven't gone, then they are still there because it serves some purpose as yet unrevealed. That purpose would be the completely unforeseeable RW.

I'm just spitballing here because, IMHO, the show has made a clusterfuck of the storyline altogether, and in vain I still try to make some sense of it.

We are on the same bloody boat then. I really hope tonight show explains everything.