Offical Court of Law v 13 Robert Baratheon

[SeanF]

Offical Court of Law v13. King Robert Baratheon.

Welcome to the 13th installment of the “Official court of law” for this board. In this thread we will debate and pass judgement on character crimes. As judges we bear a burden of upholding the integrity of our court, so being impartial is imperative. Keep all arguments in a legal context that suit the standards of this court. All posters are welcome to make their case, at the end of your argument pass your judgement and sentence!!!!

The President of the Court, Lion of Judah, has been summoned to other duties, and I shall be taking his place pro-tem.

The rules: Every poster has one vote (per charge) of guilt or innocence.

**For a guilty verdict, your options are:

Send them to the Wall. (same as a life prison sentence)

Death by sword. (Clean and quick)

Death by hanging (Not so clean and quick).

Monetary fine

Exile

Stripped of land/title.

Prison sentence

Community Service

Only the nominated character will be discussed, however, you can indict characters you also find culpable, as part of your ruling, and they can be added to the docket.

**Votes can be changed before they are counted, but do so in your original post.

Posters can just cast a vote, which is your right, but try to state a case as well. Your opinion actually matters and it may serve to change the vote of another judge.

*Do not take it personally if your favorite character is being torn to pieces. Everyone is fair game.

****If votes of 'not guilty' and 'dismissed' taken together comprise over 50% of the total votes cast, the defendant is to be found 'not guilty' or the charge is to be 'dismissed', with the option that gained the most votes between the two representing the final verdict.****

NB. Following representations by numerous distinguished jurists, Death by flaying or burning alive will no longer be available as a sentence. However, Death by hanging is now an option, as is community service (the judge should state what form of community service he/she considers appropriate).

**If you find the character innocent, simply state innocent or Not Guilty after your argument.

As for as evidence that can be submitted, posters can submit any argument they deem relevant. However we cannot use any pardons (save in one instance) or prior convictions as evidence in the matter. Our court will not recognize the judgement of any other court or ruling body. In the event that a defendant is charged with an offence against another character, judges are entitled (but not obliged) to find that defendant Not Guilty, if the latter has pardoned or forgiven them.

**You can also vote for charges to be dismissed (majority rule). Any vote to dismiss charges will be treated as an acquittal, and be added to any verdicts of Not Guilty/Innocent.

**At the end of the week the vote will be counted and the final sentence carried out. Majority rules. In the event that no punishment commands a majority, then the Court will reach a consensus between the various options put forward.

One final point that needs to be addressed is the question of sovereign immunity from prosecution. In juristictions where it applies, such as the United States and United Kingdom, the rule is that a serving Head of State cannot be prosecuted, so long as they remain the Head of State. It is not a blanket immunity from prosecution for crimes which they have committed as Head of State.

The charges are outlined in the next post

[SeanF]

The Defendant, King Robert Baratheon, First of His Name, is charged with the following offences:-

1. Treason. Two Counts.

1.1 The Defendant is charged with having waged war against his lawful sovereign, Aerys II Targaryen, in violation of his oath of fealty.

1.2 The Defendant is charged with having slain the heir to the Iron Throne, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen of Dragonstone, in violation of his oath of fealty.

2. Attempted Murder. One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having attempted to procure the assassination of Princess Daenerys Targaryen and her unborn child, through the agency of a seller of poisoned wine.

3. Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm. Two counts

3.1 The Defendant is charged with having repeatedly assaulted his Queen, Cersei of House Lannister.

3.2 The Defendant is charged with having assaulted his son, Prince Joffrey, by beating him unconscious.

4. Misconduct in Public Office. Three Counts.

4.1 The Defendant is charged with having failed to investigate or punish the murder of Princess Elia of Dorne, and her children, Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys.

4.2 The Defendant is charged with having permitted the sale of public offices by the late Janos Slynt, formerly commander of the Gold Cloaks, styling himself Lord of Harrenhall.

4.3 The Defendant is charged with neglecting matters of State to the extent that the Iron Throne is in debt by six million dragons.

5. Fornication (at the insistence of the High Septon). One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having fornicated with numerous women, in violation of his solemn and sacred marriage vows.

[Lord Freypie]

1.1 Rhaegar son of Aerys having offended house Baratheon by stealing his bride, and Aerys having commited atrocities are mitigating circumstances enough for me to only condemn him to the Wall (a sentence his senior accomplices Jon Arryn and Holster Tully). Eddard Stark his last accomplice having even more mitigating circumstances, I would just ask for community service for him.

1.2 Not guilty. He was in a situation of self defence.

2. If protecting the realm against a possible Dothraki invasion may be seen as mitigating circumstance, his maniacal obsession with getting rid of remaining Targaryans, even if it means killing innocent childs, is a big aggravating one. I'd condemn him to death by the sword for that.

3.1 I vote for case dismissal as forum rules wouldn't allow the defense to argue properly. (enough marital rape debates)

3.2 His son commiting an act of extreme cruelty against an animal desserved an harsh punishment, but not to risk his life in a beating. I vote for community service (spending more time with his son).

4.1 Knowing and rewarding the guy who ordered the murders with his marriage with his daughter Cersei, not just refusing to punish them, Robert should not only be charged of failing to investigate but for complicity, and condemned to death, as well as Tywinn Lannister and Gregor Clegane (this last one should be hanged for also going further than his orders and raping a child). I think the way the corpses were presented by Tywin and the absence of reaction from Robert are evidence enough.

4.2/4.3 For his bad administration, I'd vote for stripping Robert Baratheon from the title of King of the 7 Kingdoms, Andals and the First Men, and name one of his brothers in his place.

5. We are not the faith to judge these matters. Not guilty (edit : or rather dismissal).

[SeanF]

4.1 Knowing and rewarding the guy who ordered the murders with his marriage with his daughter Cersei, not just refusing to punish them, Robert should not only be charged of failing to investigate but for complicity, and condemned to death, as well as Tywinn Lannister and Gregor Clegane (this last one should be hanged for also going further than his orders and raping a child). I think the way the corpses were presented by Tywin and the absence of reaction from Robert are evidence enough.

Ser Gregor was the only defendant to be sentenced to death by burning alive,

[WinterKing]

1.1 Not Guilty.Aerys broke the social pact of that society, and so they had the right to rebel.

1.2 Not Guilty. It was a battle.

2. The intended victim was a danger to the security of the realm, but it was a crime even so,Guilty.Monetary fine.

3.1This one will turn into a mess, but Guilty.Monetary fine.

3.2 Dismissed. He was educating and punishing his son, as was his right.

4. Guilty of the three accounts.The value lost to the crown shall be repaid.A monetary conpensation must be paid to the relatives of the murdered.

5. This tribunal is not a religious one.Dismissed.

[Garlan Marius]

The Defendant, King Robert Baratheon, First of His Name, is charged with the following offences:-

1. Treason. Two Counts.

1.1 The Defendant is charged with having waged war against his lawful sovereign, Aerys II Targaryen, in violation of his oath of fealty.

1.2 The Defendant is charged with having slain the heir to the Iron Throne, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen of Dragonstone, in violation of his oath of fealty.

2. Attempted Murder. One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having attempted to procure the assassination of Princess Daenerys Targaryen and her unborn child, through the agency of a seller of poisoned wine.

3. Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm. Two counts

3.1 The Defendant is charged with having repeatedly assaulted his Queen, Cersei of House Lannister.

3.2 The Defendant is charged with having assaulted his son, Prince Joffrey, by beating him unconscious.

4. Misconduct in Public Office. Three Counts.

4.1 The Defendant is charged with having failed to investigate or punish the murder of Princess Elia of Dorne, and her children, Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys.

4.2 The Defendant is charged with having permitted the sale of public offices by the late Janos Slynt, formerly commander of the Gold Cloaks, styling himself Lord of Harrenhall.

4.3 The Defendant is charged with neglecting matters of State to the extent that the Iron Throne is in debt by six million dragons.

5. Fornication (at the insistence of the High Septon). One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having fornicated with numerous women, in violation of his solemn and sacred marriage vows.

1.1 Not guilty via self-defense.

1.2 Not guilty via self-defense.

2. A pretender to the throne is a danger indeed. Dismissed. Also, trying those that hire assassins as murderers seems like a bad precedent.

3.1 Guilty. To be punched full-on in the face by Gregor Clegane for each assault on his wife.

3.2 Dismissed. Raising a child in his own manner (this being a crime is anachronistic).

4.1 Guilty. Stripped of title of "Lord Protector" until he learns that that also includes people who are inconvenient to him.

4.2 Dismissed. Robert was dead at the time.

4.3 Keynesian economics isn't a crime. Dismissed.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

First of all, i think it is somewhat strange that you title him King and accuse him of attempting to assassinate princess Daenerys. I mean, either he is the "rightful" king or Daenerys is the heir after her father, you can't have both. Which makes his crimes against Aerys/Rhaegar ambigous to me as well. Now to business:

1.1 Dismissed, that was barely self-defense.

1.2 Slain in battle, during a war... Dismissed.

2. Guilty of assassination attempt on Daenerys Targaryen, NOT princess anymore though. Punishment: the Wall.

3.1 Guilty, you might like it (i did at least) but he did hit her, sorry. Punishment: Community Service, perhaps serving as cleaning service in a sept.

3.2 Guilty (though my heart says he is guilty only of not killing joffrey at that instant), but with the allieviating circumstances of said prince cruelly killing an animal and thus enraging his father. Punishment: Community Service, as above.

4.1 Guilty, as state by fellow voters he even rewarded the murderers. Punishment: Death by sword.

4.2 Dismissed, being a bad king is hardly a crime.

4.3 Dismissed, same as 4.2.

5. Dismissed, the high septon is ridiculous.

[Kernest]

1.1 I call Robert Baratheon, first of his name innocent on this account, for the King Aerys had demanded his head to be removed from his body, ending Robert's life in the process. Though it is treason to wage war against your rightful king, it is nowhere said that a man sould allow a king to murder him. Robert therefore acted in self-defense and is innocent on this account.

1.2 Using the same arguments as before, Robert cannot have broken his oath as it was first broken by King Aerys. It is also worthy of notice that by singling out Rhaegar Targaryen in combat and defeating him, Robert ended the battle quickly resulting in fewer overall deaths, and Robert's leniency towards his surrendered enemies is well documented. I call innocent here as well.

2 Robert did order a murder, though later regretted it. Only justification for his action was the well being of the smallfolk, whose lives would have been extinguished by the thousands had the brutish Dothraki crossed the Narrow Sea. My judgement is guilty, a monetary fine is to be paid to Daenerys Stormborn of house Targaryen with the stipulation that the paid sum may not be used towards de-throning Robert Baratheon, first of his name.

3.1 Unlike my fellow judges, I do believe that these physical assaults consist of more than just marital rape, as Robert was as quick to anger as he was to forget. The mitigating factors are few if there even are any, but part of the blame belongs to the Faith that frowns upon divorces, even though the marriage was obviously riddled with problems. No man should have to commit the crime of bribery just to get a divorce. Yet still I rule guilty, punishment being Community Service among battered women.

3.2 I do believe that the law does not forbid physical punishment of ones children, this case should be used as an example in arguing for restrictions on fathers power over their children. However I find that no punishment can be given under the current law and therefore dismiss this charge.

4.1 The man who actually committed these horrible crimes has already been punished to my understanding, but the responsibility to investigate and punish belongs to the honorable lord Tywin Lannister, Ser Gregor being his bannerman. I also find it offensive that the honorable judge Lord Freypie suggests that the marriage to Cersei Lannister was a gift to Tywin for the murder of the Targaryen children, in my view this was to pacify the realm and ensure that no further rebellions occur. Therefore I move this charge to be dismissed as well.

4.2 In light of evidence presented by others, it appears that Robert was unaware of titles being sold, and since incompetence is not truly a crime, I rule him innocent.

4.3 Living beyond your means is not a crime per se, only if you have no intention of repaying your lenders their money. After a certain point the fault lies with the men supplying Robert with money, namely Lord Tywin Lannister, the Iron Bank of Braavos and others. I move the charge be dismissed immediately.

5 This is a matter between a husband and wife, Cersei Lannister to our knowledge was aware of Robert's fornications and did nothing to stop them, or talk to Robert about it. In hindsight we also know Cersei did not keep to her vows either, so there can be no crime towards Cersei, only the Faith. But the Faith is at fault for demanding that marriage wovs require a promise of monogamy, even if the marrying couple did not themselves agree to it. I move for a dismissal here as well.

/Offtopic My first time writing, but damn I'd be a good lawyer :cool4:

EDIT: changed a ruling

[Garlan Marius]

Oh, I appear to have forgotten charge 5:

Dismissed on account of the only Septon that would actually charge him with that is the High Sparrow, who wasn't around during Robert's reign.

[SeanF]

First of all, i think it is somewhat strange that you title him King and accuse him of attempting to assassinate princess Daenerys. I mean, either he is the "rightful" king or Daenerys is the heir after her father, you can't have both. Which makes his crimes against Aerys/Rhaegar ambigous to me as well. Now to business:

.

"Princess" is a reasonable translation of Khaleesi, IMHO.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

1.1 Aerys II Targaryen was his King and ruler. The defendant disobeyed and betrayed his King. It was high treason. However he acted in sefl-defense. Veredict: Dissmised, because of self-defense.

1.2 Rhaegar Targaryen was the heir to the Seven Kingdoms. Killing a member of the royal family is a crime. However, dissmised because of selfdefense during a battle. Veredict: Dissmised.

2. Daenerys Targaryen had nothing to do with the crimes committed by her family. She was only 13 years old, innocent, and pregnant. Robert attempted the murdered of two innocent lives hers and her unborn child. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Prision sentence.

3.1 Cersei Lannister is his queen and must be respected and treated as such. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Community service.

3.2 Joffrey Baratheon is his son and must be educated, but in the right way, not by being beated unconscious. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Community service.

4.1 The victims were members of the royal family, innocents, and murdered (Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys) The defendant not only didn't punish the killers, but also rewarded them. Tywin ordered the murder, and was rewarded with the title of Warden of the West again. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Death by hunging.

4.2, 4.3 Robert I Baratheon was a terrible king and even worse administrator. He is obviously not worthy of such title. He was an outstanding warrior, but was not meant to become a king. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Stripped of the tile of King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

5 He dishonored his Queen and Lady wife. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Monetary fine and community service to Queen Cersei Lannister. (can I choose two?)

[WardenOfTheNerds]

"Princess" is a reasonable translation of Khaleesi, IMHO.

Oh, in that case it makes sense. Though i guess leaving Khaleesi untranslated would be more understandable (to me at least).

[Kernest]

1.1 Aerys II Targaryen was his King and ruler, and "like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither gods nor men". The defendant must have obeyed his King. It was high treason. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Death by sword.

1.2 Rhaegar Targaryen was the heir to the Seven Kingdoms. Killing a member of the royal family is a crime. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Death by sword.

I urge you my dear justice to read my opinion, Aerys acted first and therefore is at fault! Also, Targaryens may not answer to gods or men, but the rule of law is absolute, even for Targaryens. I'd go as far as to say that the rule of law must be observed more when making rulings regarding Targaryens, given their history of mental illness.

2. Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and and innocent girl. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Prision sentence.

I do not question your ruling here, but Daenerys Targaryen lost the right to the Seven Kingdoms to Robert through right of conquest, and you should consider this as a factor if you're giving Robert a harsher sentence for acting against a queen than you would if she were a commoner.

4.1 The victims were members of the royal family, innocents, and murdered. The defendant not only didn't punish the killers, but also rewarded them. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Death by hunging.

4.2, 4.3 Robert I Baratheon was a terrible king and even worse administrator. He is obviously not worthy of such title. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Stripped of the tile of King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

Again I beg of you to reconsider. Marriage to Cersei cannot be considered a reward, as it happens she was the only woman of a suitable age that would tie one of the kingdoms to Roberts throne, Lyanna being dead, Catelyn and Lysa being married recently before.

As for the later charges, incompetence is not a crime. Robert should be punished for indifference towards administration, but I find yours too harsh.

5 In the eyes of the Faith of the Holy Seven, the New Gods (which I don't worship) is a big crime. Veredict: Guilty. Punishment: Monetary fine and community service. (can I choose two?)

But if it is a crime in eyes of gods, shouldn't it be left to gods to deliver the punishment? We are not here to favor one religion over another, we are here to determine if any actual laws were broken.

[TalalOfDorne]

1. Treason. Two Counts.

1.1 The Defendant is charged with having waged war against his lawful sovereign, Aerys II Targaryen, in violation of his oath of fealty.

Not Guilty. King Aerys has done a number of atrocities (Burning Lord Stark and killing his son Brandon). After that he calls for the heads of two innocents. They had a right to rebel.

1.2 The Defendant is charged with having slain the heir to the Iron Throne, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen of Dragonstone, in violation of his oath of fealty.

Not guilty. It was in battle

2. Attempted Murder. One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having attempted to procure the assassination of Princess Daenerys Targaryen and her unborn child, through the agency of a seller of poisoned wine.

Guilty

3. Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm. Two counts

3.1 The Defendant is charged with having repeatedly assaulted his Queen, Cersei of House Lannister.

Guilty

3.2 The Defendant is charged with having assaulted his son, Prince Joffrey, by beating him unconscious.

Guilty

4. Misconduct in Public Office. Three Counts.

4.1 The Defendant is charged with having failed to investigate or punish the murder of Princess Elia of Dorne, and her children, Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys.

Guilty

4.2 The Defendant is charged with having permitted the sale of public offices by the late Janos Slynt, formerly commander of the Gold Cloaks, styling himself Lord of Harrenhall.

Guilty

4.3 The Defendant is charged with neglecting matters of State to the extent that the Iron Throne is in debt by six million dragons.

Guilty

5. Fornication (at the insistence of the High Septon). One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having fornicated with numerous women, in violation of his solemn and sacred marriage vows.

Guilty

Sentence:

For (3) and (5): Monetary fine to Queen Cersei Lannister.

For (4.2-3) Stripped of the title of King of the Seven Kingdoms

For (2) The defendant should be imprisoned for the remainder of his life in Storms End under the administration of his brother Renly.

For (4.1) EDIT: DEATH BY SWORD after a public apology to Prince Doran Martell.

[locke and key]

The Defendant, King Robert Baratheon, First of His Name, is charged with the following offences:-

1. Treason. Two Counts.

1.1 The Defendant is charged with having waged war against his lawful sovereign, Aerys II Targaryen, in violation of his oath of fealty.

Guilty, but dismissed after robert became king

1.2 The Defendant is charged with having slain the heir to the Iron Throne, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen of Dragonstone, in violation of his oath of fealty.

same as above

2. Attempted Murder. One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having attempted to procure the assassination of Princess Daenerys Targaryen and her unborn child, through the agency of a seller of poisoned wine.

Guilty

3. Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm. Two counts

3.1 The Defendant is charged with having repeatedly assaulted his Queen, Cersei of House Lannister.

Guilty

3.2 The Defendant is charged with having assaulted his son, Prince Joffrey, by beating him unconscious.

Guilty

4. Misconduct in Public Office. Three Counts.

4.1 The Defendant is charged with having failed to investigate or punish the murder of Princess Elia of Dorne, and her children, Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys.

Not guilty, The king has the power to forgive lords.

4.2 The Defendant is charged with having permitted the sale of public offices by the late Janos Slynt, formerly commander of the Gold Cloaks, styling himself Lord of Harrenhall.

Not guilty, IIRC robert was un-aware of this

4.3 The Defendant is charged with neglecting matters of State to the extent that the Iron Throne is in debt by six million dragons.

Dismissed

5. Fornication (at the insistence of the High Septon). One Count.

The Defendant is charged with having fornicated with numerous women, in violation of his solemn and sacred marriage vows.

Guilty

Verdict: 6 month community service sentence, working for queen cersei lannister and joffrey baratheon, before service on the wall

[WinterKing]

why this is in the re-read forum?

[SeanF]

why this is in the re-read forum?

I don't know. I posted it in the General forum. I'll try and find out.

[RSLee]

1.1 Not Guilty. Robert Baratheon won the crown justly and was declared King by every law in Westeros.

1.2 Not Guilty. Rhaegar was killed on the battlefield. To call his death murder would be ludicrous.

2. Dismissed. Daenerys Targaryen was an enemy of the lawful Baratheon reign. She was plotting to conquer Westeros with a horde of murderous, raping barbarians. And, as the assassination order was given through lawful channels by way of the Small Council, I judge that this act cannot be considered a crime.

3.1 Guilty.

3.2 Guilty.

4.1 Dismissed. The King acted within his legal rights. He broke no laws in choosing not to punish the killers of the royal family.

4.2 Not Guilty. I see no evidence that Robert was aware of any positions being sold.

4.3 Dismissed. Having poor spending habits is not a crime.

5. Dismissed. There's no denying Robert Baratheon's sorrid affairs. But, I don't believe that adultry is a crime worthy of legal punishment. If we are going to start punishing men for sleep around in a court of law, then we would be going down a VERY slippery slope. As a result of Robert's failings as a husband, I would be willing to grant Cersei Lannister a legal release from her marriage vows, but somehow I doubt that she would want to give up the position of queen.

I would normally recommend forcing Robert Baratheon to pay fines to the assaulted parties. However, as these parties are his wife and son, I would instead have to suggest paying this fine to Cersei Lannister's father, Lord Tywin Lannister.

[Riptide]

1. Not guilty; self defense.

2. Guilty.

3. Guilty.

4.1 & 4.2. Guilty.

4.3. Spending and borrowing money is perfectly within his rights as king. Not guilty.

5. Guilty.

Punishment: Wall for 2, 3, and 4, plus castration for 5. I don't want serial adulterers reproducing any further.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

1.1 Not Guilty, Aerys had broken the feudal contract with the Lords of the North by unlawfully burning them to death.

1.2 Not Guilty, it was in the heat of battle.

2. Guilty, large monetary fine

3.1 Guilty, large monetary fine to be paid to Cersei Lannister based on the oftenness of said beatings.

3.2 Not guilty, the boy had done something disgusting and wrong, and while Robert may have gotten overboard, he was still well within his rights.

4.1 Guilty, monetary fine and prison sentence.

4.2 Guilty, monetary fine and prison sentence. Punishment should be shared by his brother, Renly Baratheon, who was justicar. Finding and destroying corruption in the courts of the realm was his duty, that he failed at entirely, due to apathy rather than ineptitude.

4.3 Guilty, as the state of the kingdom is a result of his apathy and refusal to do anything rather than mere ineptitude, stripped of land and title, Kingship given to either his heir or one of his brothers.

5. Not guilty, while I do not approve of it, it is a common fact that more lords than not have multiple women they sleep with, it is an accepted fact by many, if not most of the women of the courts.