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Exar0s

[Book Spoilers] Why do the Starks have it so bad? [Future events and speculations]

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but lannisters by the end of book 5 have had their fair share of bad luck

ETA: Book 5 Spoilers

Tywin/Kevan - Murdered; Jamie crippled, Cersei jailed and walk of shame, Tyrion became a slave (though came out of it pretty quick)

Compare that to Starks

Jon- LC of NW (and hopefully the protagnist of the story. and i dont believe him dead), Bran - All set to become an old god, Sansa - Becoming a player in game of thrones, Arya - Gods be good she is an assassin now. Am unsure about rickon but if the direwolves are any any reflection of the character of their starks...

The last book was supposed to be names a time of wolves.

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but lannisters by the end of book 5 have had their fair share of bad luck

ETA: Book 5 Spoilers

Tywin/Kevan - Murdered; Jamie crippled, Cersei jailed and walk of shame, Tyrion became a slave (though came out of it pretty quick)

Compare that to Starks

Jon- LC of NW (and hopefully the protagnist of the story. and i dont believe him dead), Bran - All set to become an old god, Sansa - Becoming a player in game of thrones, Arya - Gods be good she is an assassin now. Am unsure about rickon but if the direwolves are any any reflection of the character of their starks...

The last book was supposed to be names a time of wolves.

The difference being the lannisters destroyed themselves and the Starks were crushed by their enemies.

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The difference being the lannisters destroyed themselves and the Starks were crushed by their enemies.

i somehow dont feel so. Only Cersei destroyed herself, the rest suffered due to unforeseen circumstances.

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The Lannisters maintained power only because the real players of the game use Cersei's short-sighted stupidness to their advantage. And then Tyrion kills the only capable Lannister so, yes that's destroying yourself, and Varys takes care of Kevan who comes to show himself as capable.

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That would the worst thing that could happen, the fact the lannisters will get their comeuppance is what keeps me reading the books.

Tywin's dead, Joffrey's dead, Kevan's dead, Cersei's been imprisoned and marching through KL's naked, not to mention seeing her child die before her eyes, Tyrion's lost all power and has been sold into slavery, even if he's getting out of it now. Jaime lost a hand, the love of his life, feels betrayed by his brother and is re-examining everything. Even Myrcella has been scarred?

What more do you want? Tommen being eaten by cannibals?

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Tywin's dead, Joffrey's dead, Kevan's dead, Cersei's been imprisoned and marching through KL's naked, not to mention seeing her child die before her eyes, Tyrion's lost all power and has been sold into slavery, even if he's getting out of it now. Jaime lost a hand, the love of his life, feels betrayed by his brother and is re-examining everything. Even Myrcella has been scarred?

What more do you want? Tommen being eaten by cannibals?

Yes. As a matter of fact, I do. That would make for an amazing chapter.

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It's because we see the main events from their POVs, so the series is overall biased towards them. If we had a POV for every family I'm sure things would be different.

Still, though, I do believe good things will come. The Lannisters are slowly going down, one by one.

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It's because we see the main events from their POVs, so the series is overall biased towards them. If we had a POV for every family I'm sure things would be different.

Still, though, I do believe good things will come. The Lannisters are slowly going down, one by one.

I'm sorry, what? We have 4 Stark POVs, 3 Lannister POVs, 4 Greyjoy POVs, 3 Martell POVs, 1 Targaryen POV, 1 Tully POV. A ton of the main events take place for non-Starks, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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The two red headed Stark women really screw that family up bad. Cat and her favorite child, Sansa, the choices they made throughout the first 3 books are devastating to the Starks.

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I think it just comes down to realism. The most righteous people do not always triumph nor do the wicked always prevail. In life you should cherish every victory, and I think no matter how bittersweet there will be something worthwhile to behold at the end of the tale.

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I think it just comes down to realism. The most righteous people do not always triumph nor do the wicked always prevail. In life you should cherish every victory, and I think no matter how bittersweet there will be something worthwhile to behold at the end of the tale.
I can appreciate that. But the good don't always fall prey to the schemes of the wicked. That isn't realistic either IMO.

But we aren't done yet. The pendulum will swing the other way. Maybe not as far as some will like, but it will.

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In this episode we will see the negotiations for the RW. Soon Robb and Cat will join Ned in death. Our beloved Starks are being taken out. Theon sacked Winterfel which has since been burned to the ground, Sansa is about to be married to the Imp, Arya is about to be kidnapped by the hound and forced to see her family slaughtered, Bran and Rickon are presumed dead and Jon Snow is presumed a traitor to the Knights Watch.

I know the Stark's are supposedly the "good guys" but man do they have it rough. Why does he force us to love the Stark's only to make us read/watch them suffer since Bran was thrown from the wall in the first season. I know the Lannisters will get theirs in time but reading and watching the Stark's stories makes me sad and angry. Why do the good guy's always suffer the most?

I'm just curious if anyone thinks we will ever see the Stark's truly get revenge for the crimes done against them? Will we ever see Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon and Jon together again? Will the Stark's have a happy ending once this story is complete? Will Benjen ever show back up? Will Jon end up being the saving grace for the family, even after turning down the rights to have the Stark name? I'm so lost seeing how there can be a happy ending for the Stark's.

I know this is way to early for this conversation but the show won't catch up for another 4-5 years . . . .

If Westerosi lore is correct...the Starks have never had it easy...from their wars wit the Boltons and the wildings....the kings in the north have always had a rough time of it....yet they perservered.....poor Neds father and brother....what a miserable deaths...

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When you consider net losses, the Starks aren't as far down as other houses. Robb, Ned, and UnCat are the only real losses. We have Sansa in a strong position to retain power, Bran doing his thing, Rickon on his way back (presumably) and Arya's eventual return to Westeros. If you compare them to, say, the Lannisters, Tywin, Kevan, and Joffrey are all dead, Jaime is a Kingsguard (no inheritance), Cersei is batshit insane and a trainwreck, and Tyrion is in exile. The main branch of House Lannister is in the shit, as are the Baratheons, who have lost just about everyone and have no heirs, except Shireen.

Starks have probably the best chance of actually existing when the novels end.

I like your summary perspective very much. By seeing it from that angle we're reminded that the Lannisters are not going to fare so well either. Right now it seems like they're on top but all of that's about to change.

I also am always reminding myself that it's not called "Game of Thrones" for no reason - it really is a very precarious chess board they're all on. Even moreso that many other houses and characters become key players as well so it's not all Good vs. Bad, White vs. Black.

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Robb lost the war when he let Theon go to broker a Stark/Greyjoy alliance and it ended up with the North being invaded and his brothers seemingly murdered. Breaking his marriage vow had little to do with it. JMO. Boltons/Freys are weasels and were looking for an exit strategy. Robb becomes a martyr and Lady Stoneheart becomes unforgiving vengeance. Neither were the actual heroes of the story.

I also think, once you got a host of scumbags introduced in book 4 and 5, many of whom I can't be bothered to care about one way or another, yet even getting pov chapters because the plot requires it, I say let the scumbags kill each other while the surviving Starks learn their skills in satefy. Very few of these late comers will make it out of this series, me thinks. The fact that the Lannisters lost two Stark girls and Theon lost the Stark boys, and Jon Snow is going to get a 'get out of death' free card, points to some nice plot armor for those Starks.

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