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Exar0s

[Book Spoilers] Why do the Starks have it so bad? [Future events and speculations]

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"The wolves will return." It is known aka Jojen said so. Everybody calm down. The ending will be "bittersweet" so we may lose Jon/Arya, but the rest will survive and rebuild Winterfell. Personally, I was more upset at Grey Wind's death than Robb's. Reading from the direwolves perspective that they knew their brother and sister (Lady) were gone were the only moments I felt misty eyed.

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"The wolves will return." It is known aka Jojen said so. Everybody calm down. The ending will be "bittersweet" so we may lose Jon/Arya, but the rest will survive and rebuild Winterfell. Personally, I was more upset at Grey Wind's death than Robb's. Reading from the direwolves perspective that they knew their brother and sister (Lady) were gone were the only moments I felt misty eyed.

Let Ghost live and have Nymeria continue to destroy everything with that huge pack of hers. Or oo have Ghost join if Jon uh bites it.

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Let Ghost live and have Nymeria continue to destroy everything with that huge pack of hers. Or oo have Ghost join if Jon uh bites it.

Yes!

Personally, my (crack)pot theory is that Nymeria and her hundreds of wolves will kill every Frey. I picture Nymeria howling: "EVERYONE GETS A FREY! YOU GET A FREY! AND YOU!" The End.

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Yes!

Personally, my (crack)pot theory is that Nymeria and her hundreds of wolves will kill every Frey. I picture Nymeria howling: "EVERYONE GETS A FREY! YOU GET A FREY! AND YOU!" The End.

There's a lot of Freys, they better pick up the pace.

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There's a lot of Freys, they better pick up the pace.

Well, they're practising for it by killing plenty of men and getting a taste for man-flesh. I think there are enough wolves for one Frey per wolf, when the time comes. :wideeyed: :hat:

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This is completely random, but I read a theory somewhere that the Stark family (minus Jon I guess) represents the Seven..

Father- Ned

Mother- Cat

Warrior- Robb

Maiden- Sansa

Crone-Bran

Stranger- Arya

Smith- Rickon

I'm just interested in hearing your opinions on it. Sorry if this was already discussed because I'm far too lazy to search through posts on here!

Anyway, I really hope the Starks get their vengeance and I believe they will. But as long as Arya doesn't die, I'm fine with it!

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Maybe all the newfound wealth from the show has brightened GRRM's pessimistic life and he will change the original ending he had in mind where everyone dies except for the fat characters.

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The Starks have it rough now. That scene where Wylla Manderly and her monologue about being Stark men was so emotional because of all the bad shit that happened to them. In the long run, while I don't think there's going to be some happy ending, I think the Starks will prevail in some sense.

This, basically.

It won't be exactly a "happy ending", but the Starks are very likely to prevail.

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Other than the fact that the Starks basically were the focus of Book 1 - I no longer think this is a story about the Starks.

They are simply one family in a super long saga.

Bilbo starts off the Hobbit -- but the entire LotR mythos does not hinge in the participation of the Baggin's.

In ASoIaF if you really think this entire story is about the Starks still -- you probably missed the point of having 200 other characters

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We feel really badly for the Starks because they suffer, horribly in some cases. The kids especially go through some terrible loss of innocence events, which is heart-wrenching. But the ones who still live are, well, alive, and as show!Arya said to Beric, that's better than being dead.

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Because it makes for a good story and you're constantly rooting for the Starks to overcome their ordeals. But knowing GRRM, I'm not gonna be expecting a happy ending for them at the end. It's not going to be anything worse than what they've already gone through but definitely no happily ever after.

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something else to consider is just how lucky Arya has been throughout everything.

In the books She escapes the red keep during the capturing of the starks

Shes grabbed by a Stark loyalist from the NW and smuggled out of kings landing

She manages to escape through a hidden path from that keep during the Lannister raid, after just so happens she frees a facelessman

She gets captured by the mountains men and somehow survives to make it to harrenhall where she with the help of a faceless man frees boltons men, and becomes his cup bearer

Somehow manages to escape from harrenhall with her friends

Has her wolf pack kill and eat all of the patrols chasing them, while at the same time leaving her and her friends alone(at this point arya can see through nymeria but we dont see her having any control yet its all just dreams.

Then shes captured again but this time by the only decent people left in westeros, who agree to take her home when we all know the lannisters would have paid WAY more.

Get captured by the hound, who just wants to bring her home in the hopes that her brother will give him a job

Gets to the red wedding JUST in time to not get killed during dinner.

gets her sword

Is able to ditch the hound now thinking that all of her family(sans sansa, jon snow) is dead

Manages to get a ride to bravos without anyone trying anything sketchy

Before being accepted into assassin school.

Kind of feels like the faceless men have been watching her for a lot longer then when she meets Jaqen, and that mayhaps they had a plan for her the whole time.

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When you consider net losses, the Starks aren't as far down as other houses. Robb, Ned, and UnCat are the only real losses. We have Sansa in a strong position to retain power, Bran doing his thing, Rickon on his way back (presumably) and Arya's eventual return to Westeros. If you compare them to, say, the Lannisters, Tywin, Kevan, and Joffrey are all dead, Jaime is a Kingsguard (no inheritance), Cersei is batshit insane and a trainwreck, and Tyrion is in exile. The main branch of House Lannister is in the shit, as are the Baratheons, who have lost just about everyone and have no heirs, except Shireen.

Starks have probably the best chance of actually existing when the novels end.

Sansa's been living in terror for pretty much every book!

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What makes Starks the good guys? We've only really seen the latest generation. The previous ones may not have been nearly as 'good' or honorable, and in fact there is some evidence to point to their having been involved in some very dark and controversial things.

Why do they have it so bad? Mainly as a result of dangerous mistakes that they have made. Sure, Ned and Robb were both honorable, but they were also not diligent enough to protect themselves from their enemies. They basically killed themselves. I would rather read a story where people suffer losses based on the decisions they make, than one where there are one or more 'heroes' who have some kind of divine protection against the 'evil' of the story, and who wreak righteous poetic justice on the villains. I hate those stories. That's the whole reason I read ASoIaF instead of some other fantasy books.

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I don't think the question is whether or not the Starks will return. The question is whether, by the time that happens, that will be a good thing.

Ned was a great guy, and so was Cat and Robb. But they're dead. So what do we have left? Sansa is in the hands of a man who wants to turn her into his prodigy, make her as callous as he is. She's retained her basic morality, can the same be said of the other two? Arya has been killing without hesitation or remorse since ACOK, and her training continues to feed into that. Bran has been using Hodor as worse than a slave, robbing the poor halfwit of even his basic free will. What if these lessons stick? What if, when the Starks return, they aren't the noble folks who always do the right thing? What if they are ruthless players who believe in utterly annihilating their enemies root-and-stem until there is nothing left? What if the tragedy of the story is that good guys are taught how to be bad guys, and taught that only the bad guys win, and that's what *they* take away from their journey?

Food for thought.

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I don't think the question is whether or not the Starks will return. The question is whether, by the time that happens, that will be a good thing.

What if the tragedy of the story is that good guys are taught how to be bad guys, and taught that only the bad guys win, and that's what *they* take away from their journey?

Food for thought.

I'm with you. I hope that Martin has something much more interesting in mind for the future of the Starks than them simply having their just revenge. I would be sincerely disappointed if they were somehow simply vindicated or had their wrongs righted, even if it were done in a way that was bittersweet.

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something else to consider is just how lucky Arya has been throughout everything.

In the books She escapes the red keep during the capturing of the starks

Shes grabbed by a Stark loyalist from the NW and smuggled out of kings landing

She manages to escape through a hidden path from that keep during the Lannister raid, after just so happens she frees a facelessman

She gets captured by the mountains men and somehow survives to make it to harrenhall where she with the help of a faceless man frees boltons men, and becomes his cup bearer

Somehow manages to escape from harrenhall with her friends

Has her wolf pack kill and eat all of the patrols chasing them, while at the same time leaving her and her friends alone(at this point arya can see through nymeria but we dont see her having any control yet its all just dreams.

Then shes captured again but this time by the only decent people left in westeros, who agree to take her home when we all know the lannisters would have paid WAY more.

Get captured by the hound, who just wants to bring her home in the hopes that her brother will give him a job

Gets to the red wedding JUST in time to not get killed during dinner.

gets her sword

Is able to ditch the hound now thinking that all of her family(sans sansa, jon snow) is dead

Manages to get a ride to bravos without anyone trying anything sketchy

Before being accepted into assassin school.

Kind of feels like the faceless men have been watching her for a lot longer then when she meets Jaqen, and that mayhaps they had a plan for her the whole time.

all this makes her half as lucky as tyrion, and still twice as realistic

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