Roadside Rose Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I read a theory that said it could mean Benjen 'Ned's little brother'However, I currently subscribe to the Jaime theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoneborn80 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Is there anything that Jon Snow isn't?A woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadside Rose Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The Amazing Jon Snow :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Possibly, but I can't see Jon strangling anyone. Now, Tommen on the other hand... No mother! I said I didn't want beets for dinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valya of Myr Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I never thought about this.. but that's entirely possible, and actually more likely that Jaime killing Cersei. I mean, yes, she's a b*tch, but he's her brother and lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry Stark Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Maybe she just has a pale throat? Unfortunately, I think that it will be Jaime. I don't want Jaime to strangle her because I want him to move on from Cersei in order to be with Brienne. If he kills Cersei, he'll be a mess (she's his twin and his first love after all). I don't see him living long after that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nara Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Personally, I believe Jaime is valonquar, but just for kicks...perhaps the pale white throat means she's a wight at that point. Although Jon wouldn't kill a living woman, he'd have no qualms about killing a woman-wight. Of course, he wouldn't strangle her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbdonix Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Personally, I believe Jaime is valonquar, but just for kicks...perhaps the pale white throat means she's a wight at that point. Although Jon wouldn't kill a living woman, he'd have no qualms about killing a woman-wight. Of course, he wouldn't strangle her...To everyone saying that Jon could be killing Cersei if she were undead (possibly a wight) how does strangling an 'undead' kills it? I mean, it's not like it breaths and we only know that fire is what gets those things. I strongly believe Cersei won't be even crosing paths with Jon Snow (but we'll have to wait until we see GRRM's plot twists to surprise fans who got something right). Maybe she just has a pale throat? Unfortunately, I think that it will be Jaime. I don't want Jaime to strangle her because I want him to move on from Cersei in order to be with Brienne. If he kills Cersei, he'll be a mess (she's his twin and his first love after all). I don't see him living long after that...I don't know really why but it doesn't quite sit right with me Jaime killing Cersei. I don't remember it being mentioned that Jaime is younger than Cersei. My understanding is that they were born the same day from the same womb (hence the fact they are twins). I think his way of 'killing' her was kind of cutting her off from his life and ending the love he had for her out of her bedding half Westeros while he was away. So i do not think it would be him.The valonqar (as pointed out before) is 'a little brother' not HER little brother, so I also have a hard time picturing Tyrion killing her. He already got a piece of the action/revenge after killing his father and I doubt he'll be the one eradicating all of the 'bad' Lannisters (not that I consider Tywin bad). I do affiliate to that theory of Cersei mourning (possibly her kids) when she gets it. I know Tyrion loves his nephews (except for Joffrey) and wouldn't really harm them so I don't think he'll be in a killing mood (even if it's Cersei) after learning of their demises.At the risk of sounding crazy (because I hate going for theories like that) we might see something like Loras Tyrell getting to Cersei; remember he is still a little brother to Willas and Garlan. Maybe for something she does to Margaery or maybe because of that incident he has with boiling oil (from which I suspect he will be disfigured or somehow lose his handsomeness) thanks to Cersei's belligerence and need to rid herself of him.I only suggest stuff like this because GRRM has the habit of 'surprising' us to the point at which it seems a bit off putting. All in all I do not think it will be the 'obvious suspect'. How do you guys feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James March x2 Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I don't know really why but it doesn't quite sit right with me Jaime killing Cersei. I don't remember it being mentioned that Jaime is younger than Cersei. My understanding is that they were born the same day from the same womb (hence the fact they are twins). I think his way of 'killing' her was kind of cutting her off from his life and ending the love he had for her out of her bedding half Westeros while he was away. So i do not think it would be him.It has been mentioned that when Cersei was born, Jamie was holding her feet in his hand.. due to the way children do usually get in this world - head first - it has been generally accepted the notion that Jamie is the younger twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherAnduin Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 A woman.Yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 The valonquar is the new Azor Ahai Reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not a kneeler Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 This is an interesting theory, but I don't buy it.First, the Valonquar has to have a really legitimate reason to kill Cersei. We can't tie Ned's death to her except as a Lannister. It was Joff plus LF, I think, but does Jon think Ceresei is the responsible one? We don't know, and what other reason would he have to inflict such a death? I just can't see Jon doing something so personal as strangling her. Jon kills in the heat of battle, and he takes a head - he could take her head, but that is not what the prophecy predicts.We need to find people with a personal reason. Jaime? I don't know if his reaction to her infidelity extends to murder. Stannis? He's Robert's younger brother and he does hold her responsible. I can see Stannis doing it. Arya? She could do it, but does she have enough hand strength? Also, not Arya's method. She would run her through with Needle. Actually, I rather like Loras, especially if something happens to Margarey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOmetric Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I always assumed that the valonqar was a reference to Cersei's brother rather than... well, anyone else that happens to also be a little brother! :P Of course I could be wrong, especially with GRRM and his plot twists. However it's my opinion that the plot twist here is that it's not Tyrion. That leads me to think it's Jaime. I know it seems unlikely now, but last time he was in King's Landing they were hardly getting along. He also doesn't come to her aid when she needs it most. I know that's not exactly motive for murder, but Jaime's character has developed a lot and come a very long way from the person he was at the start of the series, so who's to say that he won't develop further and see some unforgivable fault in his sister.There's also some circumstantial factors at play. Consider Cersei: she's gradually losing it, and with Kevan and Pycelle murdered she's going to be paranoid and rash. This could cause her to push Jaime over the edge when the time comes - at this moment in time I can't see Jaime doing it, but maybe in the near future his character would have developed far enough to do the deed.Then there's the Stoneheart situation. I have no idea what route he's going to take here, but if we assume the Brotherhood somehow set him against Cersei... okay, that's a stretch. All I'm saying is that we don't yet know what's going to happen. For all I know he'll find his love for Cersei completely restored and will come back on his knees begging for forgiveness and sex. :PAll this aside, I can't really see Jon doing it. He'd either have to come down to King's Landing for some reason or Cersei would have to head North. Geographically it doesn't work. It could be argued that Jon blames her for the death of Ned, but that link is a bit tenuous. Maybe the red wedding? Still a bit far fetched, aside from the "all Lannisters are evil" stance. And I have to agree with Not a kneeler on the method of execution; unlikely to be a strangling. Really, this isn't Jon's fight. He's set on retaking the North and stabilising the Wildling relationships on the wall. His fight is with Ramsey, not the Southron people. Which is why I can't really see Cersei fitting into this equation, unless it happens in the future when he's dealt with all that.It's still a valid theory though - all this is just speculation. And I am a biscuit. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Jon already has to Marry Val, unite the wildling force, ride a dragon, warg a giant, marry and/or kill Dany, marry Sansa, Sit the iron throne, kill the others, save his sister Arya, save mance, kill ramsay, refortify the NW, have a chat with Bloodraven, give Arya a sword, please Stannis, forge lightbringer, become the Lord of winterfell, fulfill a prophecy, help melisandre, burn a weirwood, protect or destroy the wall....When will the poor man get a break from the expectations, he's busy!All this ok... But marry Sansa? You have some queer notions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Beyond the Wall Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Jon already has to Marry Val, unite the wildling force, ride a dragon, warg a giant, marry and/or kill Dany, marry Sansa, Sit the iron throne, kill the others, save his sister Arya, save mance, kill ramsay, refortify the NW, have a chat with Bloodraven, give Arya a sword, please Stannis, forge lightbringer, become the Lord of winterfell, fulfill a prophecy, help melisandre, burn a weirwood, protect or destroy the wall....When will the poor man get a break from the expectations, he's busy!And Cersei has so much emotion for both her brothers, I hope Tyrion gets the satisfaction, but Jaime makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMerciless Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Possible Valonqars areJaime (does not have two hands, but his golden one might do)Tyrion (plausible for me)Jon Snow (I find it hard to see him strangling a woman though)Sandor Clegane (maybe Sansa asks him to, and she'd be the one to take her place, as proficised.)Rickon... (farfetched, and totally unexpected (makes it cool). If he's anything like his wolf, which he seems to be, might work)Tommen (but I think he's too young to kill her, he'd have to be about 15/ 16 to match her. Oh wait, no Tommen, she outlives them all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOmetric Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Does Aegon count as a possible Valonqar? We don't really know him that well, so strangling might be part of his repertoire. If Cersei was in his way I can see him killing her - and if strangling is his thing, then it's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Almost everyone in the series is a valonqar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isdanil Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." I guess that must have watched too many B-grade horror movies, but that one has me thinking...Definitely its not going to be Jaime, because it clearly says HANDS. Which, as far as we know, Jaime has one less than he would need for the plural form (unless he is secretly a reptile and can regrow limbs, heh).So, the most obvious answer is Tyrion and this is one of the occasions that, in my opinion, deserves an easy answer. He has plenty of motive to strangle her and he already proved his inclination to kinslaying.BUT, if I were to conjure a crackpot theory...Possibly, but I can't see Jon strangling anyone. Now, Tommen on the other hand...As far as we know, Cersei has only wept when some of her family died, mostly when her SON died. So... does anyone else see UnTommen rising and giving his mother one last hug? He IS Joffreys little brother after all and Cersei is supposed to outlive her children.But to be honest, if Martin really wanted to foreshadow this, he would have made it in a different way and certainly not describe Tommen as a little brother, because thats not how people percieve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOmetric Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Definitely its not going to be Jaime, because it clearly says HANDS. Which, as far as we know, Jaime has one less than he would need for the plural form (unless he is secretly a reptile and can regrow limbs, heh).I see what you're saying, but I think this one's still plausible. His gold hand, while he can hardly "wrap" it, would probably do the trick. It may have developed to being "hinged" or something by then, I dunno. And with all the magic going round now, who knows? Maybe he will get his hand back, after all he's going to see Stoneheart and Thoros, and another Red Priest was able to somehow cure an infection on Victarion by turning his hand into crackling. Making his hand grow back might be possible these days. It's a theory...Plus there's the chance that it's metaphoric. Maybe taking everything she holds dear is a figurative way of strangling the life out of her.Though if the valonqar is responsible for all her pain and heartache, maybe we should look to the little clique responsible for Joffrey's death? Or Tyrion, for killing her father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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