[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

[Demiant]

I wasn't a fan of BwB handing over gendry for gold, but maybe this is for Arya's future plot benefit to show her loss of trust in humanity.

True, but surely the decapitation of her father, hostage situation with her sister, and what she's about to see in regards to the RW is enough to make her lose faith in humanity? And btw, Maicie's interpretation of Arya is really spot-on, I can't wait to see her tackle the Faceless Men storyline.

[Demiant]

Yes lad, but the explanation you gave me falls into the realm of "I can't separate the book from the show". You've told me twice what the BwB did in the books. That does not matter at all: what the BwB does in the show is utterly believable, IF you do not base your views on the book.

How? Even if you don't take the books into consideration, there's no evidence from previous episodes that the BwB are very religious bar Thoros. I get why Edric Storm wasn't included in the show and why it'd be easier to use Gendry, I don't get why they'd change the beliefs and aspects of certain characters to serve that purpose.

[Sir Mark of the East]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the

girl in grey on a dying horse

thing.

Perhaps but

Spoiler

isn't that the Karstark girl?

--

LOL at QoT and Tywin. QoT teasing Tywin if he never played with other boys....if you know what I mean. Hahaha!

Edited May 6, 2013 by Lord Mark

[The Mondrian Oak]

How? Even if you don't take the books into consideration, there's no evidence from previous episodes that the BwB are very religious bar Thoros. I get why Edric Storm wasn't included in the show and why it'd be easier to use Gendry, I don't get why they'd change the beliefs and aspects of certain characters to serve that purpose.

First, Thoros and Beric are firm believers, as the latter said "I have reborn in the light of the one true God" to Sandor. And, but that's inferring, I would say that the other members, when seeing a man resurrecting, may have reconsidered their religious views. But, even if not, that does not matter; In episode 5, Gendry says that Beric is the leader of the BwB, since he was chosen by his fellows. Mel spoke to Beric and Thoros to get Gendry, after Beric said "He has sent you here for a reason". Thus, Beric and Thoros, since they are loyal servants of R'hollor, accept to do their God's will. And Beric is the leader of the BwB, he can make that kind of decision.

And, last but not least, "we serve the Lord of Light. The Lord of Light needs him". Here, at 0.50. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR5RBM07YtU.

Edited May 6, 2013 by The Mondrian Oak

[deleted01]

I have to agree with pretty much everything in the 'Reviewing The Climb' article (?). A few main points:

Olenna could have taken the opportunity to mention Aerys naming Jaime to the Kingsguard as a kind of punishment for Tywin, when Tywin threatened to name Loras. It would have been a great opportunity to learn more about the history, like they did with Arya and Tywin at Harrenhal.

Theon.. I don't know, to be honest. I mean, it's done well by both actors and it's sufficiently horrifying, but I'm not convinced it's necessary. It is definitely getting annoying, waiting to see where they're going with it. Theon can't just be tortured for a few seasons, surely.

Melisandre speaking to Arya. Could she mean Arya's fate

as a Faceless Man? Different coloured eyes, ones she takes off? And I'm thinking the "we'll meet again" thing might have been about Alys Karstark, as mentioned upthread. It would explain why Melisandre mistakes her for Arya in ADwD.

A change I'm unsure about. It could work, if they do it right.

Oh and Jon and Ygritte on top of the Wall. How corny was that?!

Overall, while I don't think this episode was anywhere near as bad as any episode was in season 2 (bar Blackwater, which was awesome), I definitely think it was the worst episode so far. Looking forward to next week's episode.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Dracarya

[Demiant]

First, Thoros and Beric are firm believers, as the latter said "I have reborn in the light of the one true God" to Sandor. And, but that's inferring, I would say that the other members, when seeing a man resurrecting, may have reconsidered their religious views. But, even if not, that does not matter; In episode 5, Gendry says that Beric is the leader of the BwB, since he was chosen by his fellows. Mel spoke to Beric and Thoros to get Gendry, after Beric said "He has sent you here for a reason". Thus, Beric and Thoros, since they are loyal servants of R'hollor, accept to do their God's will. And Beric is the leader of the BwB, he can make that kind of decision.

And, last but not least, "we serve the Lord of Light. The Lord of Light needs him". Here, at 0.50. http://www.youtube.c...?v=BR5RBM07YtU.

Fair enough, the TV BwB is being run differently and so would probably do what they did, but it still comes as a shock to the people that have read the books. They're still changing characters around for little to no reason and while I still love the series, if it carries down this road I'm not sure how long I'll keep watching, how long it'll take for them to change yet another character or storyline for no benefit to the point where I can't be bothered anymore. Shame because some aspects of the show are spot on and a some of the changes are positive, but recently it's not been the case.

/endrant

Edited May 6, 2013 by Demiant

[-Ghost-]

How does Jojen know who Jon Snow is?

[Rhaegarsjoy]

How does Jojen know who Jon Snow is?

Because ygritte is always saying "you know nothing Jon snow". Probably heard her say it :)

[Dragonstoned]

Liking the red priest reunion. Red God defo the best god.

[Conor]

Tyrion's talk with Cersei about how poison was such a better, more intelligent way to off someone was major foreshadowing. It will come back to bite him.

Ros's death pose was lovely in a brutal sadistic way.

[Joyful Union]

Liking the red priest reunion. Red God defo the best god.

Ahem. THE ONLY GOD

[danm_999]

How? Even if you don't take the books into consideration, there's no evidence from previous episodes that the BwB are very religious bar Thoros.

At the beginning of the last episode, Kissed by Fire, the entire assembled Brotherhood in the cave chanted Thoros prayer for that the "Lord of Light protect us" before Beric and Sandor's duel.

[plurabel]

I'm late for the discussion so I'll just share that I'm kinda satisfied that I called it that they were going to fuse other sorcerer/seer types into melisandre. I remember way back when they were shooting arya and mel's scene and some pictures got out (or word got out) and everyone was confused as to how they'd ever meet. I think it was a simple, elegant move on their part. also, there's plenty of time for gendry to return to the other branch of the bwb and meet dear stoneheart.

[plurabel]

How does Jojen know who Jon Snow is?

not only does Jojen have greensight but he's also on a mission and was probably prepared, which encompasses getting to know about the starks' background both through his sight and through howland reed.

[The Mondrian Oak]

At the beginning of the last episode, Kissed by Fire, the entire assembled Brotherhood in the cave chanted Thoros prayer for that the "Lord of Light protect us" before Beric and Sandor's duel.

Right!

[Demiant]

At the beginning of the last episode, Kissed by Fire, the entire assembled Brotherhood in the cave chanted Thoros prayer for that the "Lord of Light protect us" before Beric and Sandor's duel.

Yeah, I've accepted that the entire BwB seems to worship the Red God now... it's still a change for the worse from the books imo. :(

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Bran's chapters in ASOS are awesome, the problem is they haven't done a single scene from those chapters.

[serricamus]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but are only four people going to make it over the wall now? How are they supposed to attack anybody with four people? Did anybody notice if the group was larger and there were people waiting on the ground for the rope ladder?

[BlueDragon]

Just a random book reader question this episode brought up: is Valar Morghulis a widely common phrase in the free cities? Or one specifically used by the Faceless Men? It was strange to hear Melisandre and Thoros saying it. But I could be incorrectly attributing it just to the Faceless Men. I know Dany hears it too, but I didn't think it was a common greeting..

It is well known throughout both Essos and Westeros.

Good plot thickening episode. I knew this one wasn't going to be very exciting. Does anyone else want to barf when Loras is talking about Sansa's dress? No, really, every guy in the realm likes to talk about dresses, lol. Even though the parts with Theon are unnecessary, loved the Bastard flailing him. So gross.

You may not realize it, but guys like fashion all over this world and that one. And those guys do not need to be gay. It is no big deal either way.

I have to admit, while I can understand why they jettisoned the Edric plot in favor of making Gendry the sacrificial lamb, it STILL bummed me out--imagine Thoros and Berric behaving that way in the books! Puh-leaze. Now I guess Arya will stand in for Davos in rescuing him...I also really don't understand why they insisted of making an example of poor Ros....I mean, we already know Littlefinger is slimy, devious and coldhearted, so why stuff a very likeable* character full of quarrels to prove a point that was NEVER IN THE BOOKS? Altogether, a very frustrating episode!

*At least, I liked her. I like whores, and she was smart and ambitious--all she wanted was a better life, like every other commoner in the story.

They made the wall way too thin. Jon and Ygritte looked over the lip on the North side, turned around, walked across a little path, and were at the Southern edge. Aren't there supposed to be tunnels and passages through the ice? 700 hundred feet tall and 12 feet wide: you'd expect it to be swaying back and forth. The wildlings could have just dug right through it.

The climb up the wall was thrilling though. As an action sequence, it was more successful than you normally see in a television show.

For the record, Ros hate on this board seems particularly sick. I liked her in every way. She was a wonderful addition to the books, serving to tie threads together and give us a window onto the deeper levels of Littlefinger's depravity.

The wall would have to be thick at the bottom and taper to the top. It is clearly described in the books as fairly narrow at the top.

I'm glad Ros died, for the simple fact that now I don't have to see nearly as many posts from ppl bashing her and complaining about how much they hate her. I personally liked Ros's character, but at the same time I'm relieved they finally put her out of her misery because the absurd amount of hate the woman recieved was beginning to become extremely tiresome in the most annoying kind of way.

Well, there are lots of annoying posts here, Ros related ones being amongst the most disturbing. Ros is trying to survive in a very difficult world, both for women and the poor. I admired her all the way through.

How does Jojen know who Jon Snow is?

Jojen knows just about everything there is to know. He even knows the last chapters of the story and Bran's pending role.

Edited May 6, 2013 by BlueDragon

[Jojosh]

I actually thought the Jon/Ygritte scene at the end was kinda cute. Maybe I'm a romantic but they didn't really have moments like that in the books.