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[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion


Ran
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Because I have read the books I was confused (about #3, #4 and #5) because the events on screen did not comport with my memory of the book's events. I didn't recognize the sigil on the boat, and since I believe we are hearing Littlefinger's voice just as (or right before) we see Sansa crying and the ship sailing (I do agree it does obviously seem to be leaving) it was not "obvious" to me that it meant that Littlefinger was on it and abandoning Sansa. Especially since that would be such a major change from the books. ("Wait, doesn't Sansa go with him to the Vale in the books? Wha....?") My unspoiled husband said "Whose boat is that? Is she crying just because she has to marry Tyrion? Or is Loras being shipped away to High Garden"? And I said, "I think that's probably Littlefinger's boat leaving, but I'm really not sure."

This uncertainty about how much, exactly, B&B will follow the text of the books increases my interest in the show as a reader of the books. I am now not sure what will happen in the case of the Cersei-Loras marriage.

Hopefully the RW and PW will still occur on cue and we'll find out whether Lord Tywin "shits bricks of gold" or not.

It's a very tough dilemma for B&B in adapting the books that have such a devoted following. If they stray too much from the books they get yelled at, but if they didn't stray from the books it would be almost impossible to adapt for less than a prohibitive cost. I have only read the books once (I'm actually thinking of re-reading ASoS on vacation before the Season ends because I don't have the events as fresh in my mind as I would have thought) but I am very pleased how B&B are treating the characters and sticking (roughly) to the story from the books. If it was a completely faithful adaptation (say like LoTR) I think it would be pretty boring television show.

Someone further back in the thread said that LF had everyone believing he left KL long before he actually did, which is why he was able to smuggle out Sansa. I cannot remember if this is true or not, but if it is, then my guess is that the sailing ship with the mockingbird sail is meant to convince KL that LF left for the Eyrie.

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I really wish they would cut down on the torture scenes and make them less explicit. If it is important to convey how evil Ramsay is, why can't it be done indirectly. For example, we were shown how Joffrey killed Ros and can infer things about his character without seeing the actual process of him putting all those arrows in her.

We could be shown a Theon with broken teeth/missing body parts, and infer from that the character of Ramsay. If they really need to show a torture scene, why not just show ONE and stop at that? From the episode 7 preview I am guessing they will be castrating Theon in the next episode, I really wish that was not in the episode.

Are they doing it for story development or to shock viewers? Is it healthy for people to watch this kind of thing?

Edited by anya1
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I guess my problem with Theon is that short of some non-book storyline, he doesn't really have much to do between now and Season 5 except be tortured. So what are they going to do? Have Ramsay take a digit or a toe off every two episodes?

Edited by Newstar
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Sorry if this was already mentioned, but one of the minor things I enjoyed was Anguy telling Arya to "trust your eye." It reflects Syrio's gospel of always following the eye and what you see. Sure enough, right after Anguy says that, Arya is the first of the camp to "eye" that intruders are coming.

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I guess my problem with Theon is that short of some non-book storyline, he doesn't really have much to do between now and Season 5 except be tortured. So what are they going to do? Have Ramsay take a digit or a toe off every two episodes?

I think there will be more scenes involving psychological warfare than actual torture in the end. If they do it right, they could really show his degradation from Theon to Reek and how twisted his mind becomes where he essentially becomes Ramsey's pet. There will definitely be some non book scenes in order to accomplish that, but I think it could pay dividends in the end.

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I'm wondering if the cast ate the rabbits they were skinning and cooking.

And did they have a line in the credits saying that "No animals were harmed during the filming"?

The ship at the end was confusing. It wasn't clear if it was going anywhere, and if it was, why was it leaving when Littlefinger was still monologuing in the throne room?

As for the book: correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he leave for the Aeyrie, and then come back secretly to get Sansa at the Purple Wedding? Or is he just hiding nearby the whole time? I thought we were getting a scene with Lysa and Robyn this season, so I had the impression he'd be going to the Aeyrie and then coming back.

Littlefinger's magic teleportation power probably makes him the leading candidate to win the game of thrones. He got from Renly's camp to Harrenhal and back to King's Landing in how many episodes? And how many episodes is it going to take Brienne and Jamie to get from Harrenhal to King's Landing?

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I guess my problem with Theon is that short of some non-book storyline, he doesn't really have much to do between now and Season 5 except be tortured. So what are they going to do? Have Ramsay take a digit or a toe off every two episodes?

Perhaps his betrayal of the Ironborn at Moat Cailin could be moved up, as could the Boltons' consolidation of their hold on the north - but of course I'm probably forgetting some plot point that hinges upon whatever is happening further south.

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We could be shown a Theon with broken teeth/missing body parts, and infer from that the character of Ramsay. If they really need to show a torture scene, why not just show ONE and stop at that? From the episode 7 preview I am guessing they will be castrating Theon in the next episode, I really wish that was not in the episode.

I really hope they don't show or directly imply that as it is already hard enough to watch when it is just his fingers and I don't think I can stomach someone's cock being flayed/cut off.

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And did they have a line in the credits saying that "No animals were harmed during the filming"?

The ship at the end was confusing. It wasn't clear if it was going anywhere, and if it was, why was it leaving when Littlefinger was still monologuing in the throne room?

Because it ceased being a scene between Littlefinger and Varys, and started being a voiceover where Littlefinger was narrative the theme of chaos and the climb. The voiceover and Littlefinger sailing away weren't happening at the same time.

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As apt a slogan for the series as "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention" is, there was an even better one in this episode, I think: "We're all being shipped off to Hell together." Indeed.

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I guess my problem with Theon is that short of some non-book storyline, he doesn't really have much to do between now and Season 5 except be tortured. So what are they going to do? Have Ramsay take a digit or a toe off every two episodes?

They'll be moving up some of his ADWD chapters to S4. For example, fake Arya arriving in the north, will likely be S4, so will Theon's Deepwood Mott scene.

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I loved this episode. It was full of really neat callbacks to eariler scenes in the show and to the books, and they did a nice job of playing with book readers' expectations (not just in this episode but throughout the season, certain things just became more apparent). Very well done.

I love Jon and Ygritte's story being played for high romance, instead of Ygritte as an inconvenience. The "don't betray me/I won't" stuff, and the discussion of loyalty was great. It actually creates plausible uncertainty whether or not Jon will return to the Night's Watch, whereas in the books you pretty much know he's going to go back. I thought the final scene of them on top of the wall was elegant and the final shot was beautiful and sweepingly romantic.

Littlefinger was AWESOME in this episode. His speech juxtaposed with the events happening elsewhere about "the climb" was fantastic.

Sad to see Ros go (and everyone exulting in her death is a sick fucker), but her death was very effective in that it was unexpected and shocking.

Edited by The Duke of J-Town
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I really hope they don't show or directly imply that as it is already hard enough to watch when it is just his fingers and I don't think I can stomach someone's cock being flayed/cut off.

could they even show a castration? the only time i've ever seen a castration on tv it was shown sort of off screen and the guy was just shown afterward crumpled on the ground.
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I liked this episode, but not as much as the others. This is a building episode, we need to wait for the really good scenes.

I have no problem with the Theon scenes. They cut Ramsay from season 2, now they do what is needed to introduce him properly. The torture scenes replace the stories of his awful deeds that are told in ACoK : making Lady Hornwood (not sure about the name) eat her own fingers, for example.

The main question I have now is : are Thormund, Orell and Ygritte (and Jon...) supposed to attack and take Castle Black without any wildling reinforcement ???

Thormund trying this would be great.

Edited by MorbidRabbit
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I am really suprised at the amount of people who don't understand time frames. This show isn't 24, all of the events are not shown in real time. Varys and LF in the throne room wasn't neccessarily the same time Joffery walked away from Ros or when Sansa saw the ship sailing away. Also, the bow is the front, if you don't see it, then it's sailing away, also, the giant mockingbird sail should have been a huge clue as to who the boat belonged to. It's not like LF and Sansa talked about that very same boat, oh wait, yes they did!

Now, I am not sure though if LF is on the boat. He may be, but again he may be hiding out in a whore house plotting the PW.

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