Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

Recommended Posts

I haven't seen it mentioned that Littlefinger's speech seems to finally be some concrete evidence about what Littlefinger's motivations are (well, as concrete as the show can be for the books). Most people have assumed that LF just wants chaos to raise himself, but others have wanted there to be something more, some other underlying motivation like with Varys, but I think this episode summed up nicely that it's all about the climb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was waiting for Olenna to rub it in Tywin's face.."It would be an honor...to have Loras in the Kingsguard." So, then what *will* break the betrothal?

I think we're gonna have a secret pledge between the Lannisters and Tyrells to deal with one wedding at a time and once the first KL wedding is over, well we know Cersei won't be as constrained as she is now ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My list of observations for tonight's episode:

1) I really wish they would hurry up Sam the Slayer, if it's coming, because I don't know how many more incompetent scenes with him I can take.

2) I have a huge crush on Meera Reed. And the sexual tension between her and Osha is awesome.

3) I need to refresh on Jojen Reed because I don't recall him having seizures during the visions. But maybe I am misremembering.

4) Ygritte saying Jon Snow is scared of naked girls made me laugh. But then Ygritte telling Jon she knows he was still loyal to the NW but now he has to be loyal to her =( “Don’t ever betray me” That made me really sad.

5) Anyone else notice they spelled Rhllor wrong in the subtitles (Rhollor); what do you make of Valar morghulis and valar dohaeris? I noticed before they made him the same as the God of Many Faces with Jaqen's scenes but it seems they are continuing with that. As for Melisandre talking about eyes Arya will shut forever – FM foreshadowing is my vote. She said Arya will close them.

6) Guess people were right about Ramsay hunting the Stark boys and that being the reason that Bran and Rickon have to split up. Good call.

7) The Blackfish continues to entertain. "The laws of my fists are about to compel your teeth!"

8) Poor Robb, saying he is lost if they don't ally with Frey and do it now. You are lost anyway =(

9) Lady Olenna is comic relief yet again.

"Old – I’m something of an expert on the subject!"

"A sword swallower through and through!"

10) I wasn’t liking the change in the wall scene before the cracking ice but when that came it just pissed me off. It’s touching that he saved her but it completely changes their relationship. The fucking up of the dynamic between Jon Snow - Ygritte is the one thing that has been bugging me the most about this season.

11) lol Loras remembering to add “and the bride of course” But he is sympathetic to Sansa and that made me sad, talking about how terrible King's Landing is.

12) Ugh Joffrey ordering the KG to murder Tyrion? They keep giving all of Cersei's machinations to Joffrey. I could forgive a few things they gave to him but not this one.

13) My first thought with the scene between LF and Varys was that Ros haters will be happy. Omg I wrote that even before I saw what happened to her. That’s too horrible even for Joffrey. I hope Margaery doesn't participate in the future, all that foreshadowing with the crossbow was there.

14) That end scene on the wall was beautiful <3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, I think a lot of book readers here forget that Tyrion's storyline does kind of undergo a gradual descent - in the books, he really is on the lighter side of the anti-hero scale fairly early on. He gets a bit darker post-Blackwater, and I think we've already started to see a bit of that this season.

What has Tyrion done so far this season that is even little bit dark? As all I have seen is him being abused and mistreated by everybody while they continue to make him a good guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling that Mel doesn't kill Gendry, as I think there was a clip of them both naked in a room together or something. I have a feeling he bangs her and makes a shadow baby to kill Balon and his blood through the leeches for Robb and Joff and she will let him go.

Oh yes, that makes sense dtones... since she DID tell Stannis he will be King but he is not strong enough right now to bear a son. Maybe Gendry will serve as a sex slave since he seems to be taking the place of Edric Storm in the show series. I hope the show does not kill off Gendry I still have hopes for him and Arya to find each other down the line. I don't think she will remain faceless her whole life. I think she will live a long time and one day return to Winterfell. (I know...I'm an idealist)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it weird that I could watch a whole episode of Ramsay/Theon?! The casting for house Bolton is superb imo.

Not weird at all. I think it's awesome we get Reek/Theon Ramsay action that we only read about in past-tense in ADWD. Lots of stuff that was only hinted at in ADWD which is a screenwriters wet dream in regards to Theon.

Reek reek, rhymes with I'd like some more of these twisted scenes every week :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure why everyone is hating on Sam being shit at making a fire. Of all the characters I'd want to build a fire for me, Sam is definitely among the last.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, that makes sense dtones... since she DID tell Stannis he will be King but he is not strong enough right now to bear a son. Maybe Gendry will serve as a sex slave since he seems to be taking the place of Edric Storm in the show series. I hope the show does not kill off Gendry I still have hopes for him and Arya to find each other down the line. I don't think she will remain faceless her whole life. I think she will live a long time and one day return to Winterfell. (I know...I'm an idealist)

I really, really don't want to see Gendry and Mel. If I saw them naked in a preview, I must have completely repressed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My list of observations for tonight's episode:

1) I really wish they would hurry up Sam the Slayer, if it's coming, because I don't know how many more incompetent scenes with him I can take.

2) I have a huge crush on Meera Reed. And the sexual tension between her and Osha is awesome.

3) I need to refresh on Jojen Reed because I don't recall him having seizures during the visions. But maybe I am misremembering.

4) Ygritte saying Jon Snow is scared of naked girls made me laugh. But then Ygritte telling Jon she knows he was still loyal to the NW but now he has to be loyal to her =( “Don’t ever betray me” That made me really sad.

5) Anyone else notice they spelled Rhllor wrong in the subtitles (Rhollor); what do you make of Valar morghulis and valar dohaeris? I noticed before they made him the same as the God of Many Faces with Jaqen's scenes but it seems they are continuing with that. As for Melisandre talking about eyes Arya will shut forever – FM foreshadowing is my vote. She said Arya will close them.

6) Guess people were right about Ramsay hunting the Stark boys and that being the reason that Bran and Rickon have to split up. Good call.

7) The Blackfish continues to entertain. "The laws of my fists are about to compel your teeth!"

8) Poor Robb, saying he is lost if they don't ally with Frey and do it now. You are lost anyway =(

9) Lady Olenna is comic relief yet again.

"Old – I’m something of an expert on the subject!"

"A sword swallower through and through!"

10) I wasn’t liking the change in the wall scene before the cracking ice but when that came it just pissed me off. It’s touching that he saved her but it completely changes their relationship. The fucking up of the dynamic between Jon Snow - Ygritte is the one thing that has been bugging me the most about this season.

11) lol Loras remembering to add “and the bride of course” But he is sympathetic to Sansa and that made me sad, talking about how terrible King's Landing is.

12) Ugh Joffrey ordering the KG to murder Tyrion? They keep giving all of Cersei's machinations to Joffrey. I could forgive a few things they gave to him but not this one.

13) My first thought with the scene between LF and Varys was that Ros haters will be happy. Omg I wrote that even before I saw what happened to her. That’s too horrible even for Joffrey. I hope Margaery doesn't participate in the future, all that foreshadowing with the crossbow was there.

14) That end scene on the wall was beautiful <3

Thanks for that!! I enjoyed, laughed, cried (with you) and agreed!! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I had to steal this line and post it on EW's weekly recap.

It is a really funny line.

Followed up with "What does it do?" (about the dagger) which I also found very funny for some reason. I actually loved that scene and the way the camera work built tension. Felt like something was about to jump out from behind a tree the whole time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya will kill a brown eyed person, a blue eyed person, and a green eyed person...which to me suggests a Lannister.

Ahh the legendary 3 eyed Lannister known throughout the realm as Blinky, Blinky Lannister Tyrions evil little brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What has Tyrion done so far this season that is even little bit dark? As all I have seen is him being abused and mistreated by everybody while they continue to make him a good guy.

I feel like he's been a lot more serious and a lot less glib than he was in past seasons. And he's become much, much more angry at his father than he's shown in, for example, the couple of season 1 scenes we've seen with him. I'm not saying he's doing reprehensible things, just that every episode it seems like he's seething more and more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it weird that I could watch a whole episode of Ramsay/Theon?! The casting for house Bolton is superb imo.

We'll be weird together. His teeth look too good for instance. My little finger was squirming in empathy.

I thought LF was suggesting he had given Ros to Qyburn for experiments, actually.

Qyburn is at Harrenhal still and he is Cersei's critter until proven otherwise.

Ditto who ever is complaining about the "give my regards to Robb Stark/Tywin Lannister" - this happens on their departure which hasnt happened yet. So it could still be said.

Also I am terrible at Multquote but I take Cersei with a grain of salt when she lets Tyrion believe Joffrey was behind Mandon Moore's attempt at murdering Tyrion. They are just getting too friendly and I wonder if she is lulling Tyrion.

Edited by rmholt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh the legendary 3 eyed Lannister known throughout the realm as Blinky, Blinky Lannister Tyrions evil little brother.

3 eyed lion? Really the eye color fetish ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But Iwan is doing such a good job! Sides.. Cillian murphy way too old!

He's doing ok. I'm in the minority here, everyone seems to love him being the bastard, but reading the books, I kept picturing Cillian. :)

Does anyone else who didn't like Ros feel responsible for killing her because I sure do?

I've disliked her and agreed with all of the complaints about her taking up screen time, but she didn't deserve to go out like that. I guess Joff really couldn't catch the bunnies so he had to tie up a whore to practice with his crossbow.

I can't understand what they are doing to Tormund. He's one of my favorite characters in the book, but I guess since the entire raiding party sans Tormund, Orell, Jon and Ygritte fell off the Wall and died, Tormund will be able to escape during the battle so he can have his later plot with Jon.

I'm really loving all of the scenes with Jamie and Brienne. They steal the show for me.

I didn't like Edmure at first, but he was hilarious in this episode wanting to pick his own Frey and the Blackfish is awesome. I've warned my husband about the Red Wedding but didn't tell him whose wedding it was and now he completely figured it out with Edmure's pending nuptials.

I wanted to kick someone when Mel kidnapped Gendry. That just felt completely wrong, and I hope Gendry doesn't have any purpose to serve with the BWB in the books because how could they possibly explain him going back now. I was just waiting for Arya to tell him she would come for him or something, but she didn't. He did abandon her and all, but I was hoping she'd fight for him a little more. I never hated Mel in the books but the show really, really makes me hate her. If only Arya could have just stabbed her there...

I had a total "Yay she's dead... damn" moment. It sucks that they had Joffrey kill her. I feel like how Elle felt in Kill Bill 2 when she thought Beatrix was killed by Budd. But not as much respect as she had for Beatrix, ya know, but moreso that she was killed by such vermin.

Anyway, regardless of my dislike for Ros, the actress is a talented and beautiful girl and hopefully she will find work elsewhere. Just not Game of Thrones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a few comments to share on what I thought was a very well done episode:

What I liked:

Tywin I: I thought this was a perfect episode where Tywin’s power and hubris was brought in perfect contrast to Olenna’s grace and wit. Tywin was as great as he has ever been. I thought that both characters were equal to the other (unlike the prior discussions between Olenna and Tyrion/Varys etc wherein each of them turned into a stuttering fool) . Olenna may be working an angle, but if so, why wait? If she wanted Loras married to Cersei all along, why fight against it? I think Tywin scored a big win, but I cannot imagine Olenna going quietly on this. Regardless, Tywin at the meeting and then having Tyrion and Cersei struggling to simply cope with their new reality was tremendous. In so many ways, while Chaos may be the rope, the one holding the strings is still THAT guy.

The Scale: I felt the difficulty in this episode and in the huge, monolith that was erected: be it Tywin, be it giving up the God, whether it be the Wall itself. I thought that using the “Climb” up the Wall as an allegory of the entire episode worked very well. And the actual climb tied into the actual love story of Ygritte and Jon was very well done (though definitely not subtle; I thought that last shot was grand and huge and ham-fisted). I really thought that the episode showed us in all aspects just how hard everything really is.

Nice Touch: I liked how Yigritte made fun of Jon Snow by quoting … Jon Snow. I have said- many many many times that Jon Snow can kill dead things, go beyond the Wall etc and he’s fine, but show the kid one tit and he pees himself. Made no sense in the book. So, it was refreshing to hear Ygritte share my own ridicule.

Not so nice touch: I think that in hindsight there is no way anyone could ever climb that Wall. Like ever.

Nicest Touch: Tormon Ginatsbane is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters. Tough, decent, determined and strangely kind. He is the most complete of the third-level characters.

The (Little) Rope: I will say that while I am relatively unimpressed with the “Obvious” scenes wherein characters who are talking should not be actually talking, I thought that the LF-Varys back-and-forth was great. Varys, strangely, represents optimism, hope and fulfillment; LF represents a bleak dystopia wherein all there is are rope and ash. And he is the one watching others climb. That dichotomy was a very well-needed bookmark for this episode and this series. Poor Roz.

The Treaty: I liked almost every aspect of the Stark-Frey peace process, and I REALLY liked how Robb basically turned to Edmure and said “You are paying for my monumental screw-up.” Even the part where the Blackfish makes his threat, it’s the rational side of this family that supersedes the emotional. For once (heh). I really enjoyed that scene.

What I am Not Sure On:

Chasing Gendry: While the removal of the Westerling brood morphed a major plot arc, there has been no greater departure from books to show than having Mel wander into the Brotherhood camp (so the entire Lannisters cannot find them but this woman and 4 guys found them after, what 3 days?) and immediately takes Gendry. The implication is vast, but let me state a few things:

1. I am not a book purist.

2. Exchanging Gendry for Edric Storm was a wise move and greatly improved the economy of characters; it greatly streamlines plot, actors, time and pace. It’s a wise move.

3. I think the footprint of the “Lord of Light” was well done and kept in-line with the show. I especially enjoyed the interplay between Mel, the true believer, and Thoros, the fraud who became a believer. That worked….

…But….

It becomes hard to swallow the “Brotherhood Without Banners” as a democracy of rogues and scalawags who are there “for the people” and then turn around and say “Oh, yeah, cool, take him- no biggie.” Leave aside the reality that BLACKSMITHS ARE VALUABLE! But everyone is cool with this? Thoros, Bedric, etc? Everyone is fine, right? And they have no internal debate about this? WTF?? I am not sure I buy this nor am I sure that I buy that these men would do that. This turn in the story ONLY makes sense…

… if you are writing the episode and know that Stannis needs a Baratheon child. Ugh…

The End of Roz: As I stated recently, I ultimately think that I liked Roz and I enjoyed that she was fun. So… how does she end? To show us again how stupid and cruel Joff is? I thought we knew that already? I think there was no reason to kill Roz, but maybe it worked because, well, the whole REASON Roz was there in the first place was because the writers wanted a catch-all to follow the story. Well, once she was no longer needed…

The Bickering: There is an element of the show that I enjoy and that is that merely because you and I are on the same side does not mean we get along. We saw that with the Karstarks and Starks, the Lannisters and Tyrells. Now we see it with the fragments of the Starks. First we see it with the Reeds and Osha and their squabbles; then we see it with Tyrion and Shae as he has to tell her that he will marry Sansa. But here is my problem…really… who cares? I don’t give a flying fuck if Osha loves Meera opr hates her; I don’t care if Shae is cool with the idea of Tyrion marrying Sansa or if she is heart-broken. I don’t care. I find that micor-management of the show and the relationships to be boring. I want more out of the story by delving into those things we care about and not expanding into the minutia of what we don’t care about.

Note: I also have a deep seated fear that the reason Shae is the way she is is SPECIFICALLY so she can be “broken hearted” about Tyrion’s marriage, and THAT is what compels her actions at the end of SoS. That would just suck. Out loud, suck.

What I did not like:

There was no scene that I really disliked.

With all that said this episode felt fine, but it also had gaping, empty parts that I did not enjoy as much,. But that’s fine. While I wonder why I had to watch Sam and Gilly in the woods and why I had to watch the stuff I said above, I get a lot of this and can appreciate the readjustment of the pace.

But I hope it returns to the quality of the last three episodes soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought LF was suggesting he had given Ros to Qyburn for experiments, actually.

Me too! Till I realized I think Qyburn is still in Harrenhal right now. Not KL yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moment of foreshadowing between Arya and Mel? Does this point to something happening in the winds of winter and beyond? My mind cannot stop thinking about the possibilities...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I had to steal this line and post it on EW's weekly recap.

It is a really funny line.

They don't call him Sam the Slayer for nothing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something that occurred to me:

Sansa is chatting away with Shae about her marriage to Loras (the superior dressmakers in Highgarden, the possibility of inviting her family to the wedding), so Shae knows about the Loras/Sansa engagement. Did she tell Tyrion about it? Tyrion didn't seem terribly surprised when Tywin mentioned the news of the Loras/Sansa engagement in 3x05. Could it be because he already knew? I find it hard to believe Tyrion would sit on that information. Or did Shae choose to keep that information to herself because she didn't trust Tyrion with it?

Another interesting point is that Shae clearly knows Loras is gay (the wry "I'm sure he does" in response to Sansa prattling about Loras' love of brocade) but did not choose to clue Sansa in. Was it because she figured Sansa would be happier away from King's Landing even if she knew Loras was gay? Could she not bear to ruin Sansa's happiness? If Shae's as protective of Sansa as she claims, surely she wouldn't want to send her off into a marriage she knew would be loveless, and yet it seemed as if she was willing to allow Sansa to labour under her illusions about Loras without telling her the truth, which is what a friend would do. Very curious.

We might never get clarification on these points--whether Shae deliberately sat on the Loras/Sansa engagement and why she chose to withhold her knowledge of Loras' orientation from Sansa--but they do pose interesting questions.

We also got a reminder in this episode of Shae warning Sansa not to trust her in 2x06, and Sansa stating innocently in this episode that she trusted her anyway. That seems like a big warning sign that Sansa and Shae's BFFdom has an expiry date.

Edited by Newstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×