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[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

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I really liked the scene with Melisandre, Thoros, and Beric. I thought it was very insightful, and I love hearing Valyrian spoken. However, I HATED her interaction with Arya. HATED it. I wish DD would stop putting in bits and pieces of the future books. Let us read them on our own whenever they come out. It already sucks that the show might surpass the books.

I can only hope that this is one of Mel's incorrect prophecies. Maybe when they "meet again" it will really be the Karstark girl on the dying horse. And I'm not even going to bother guessing the eye thing. Especially since the actors all, or most of them, have different eye colors than their book characters.

A lot of people seemed to dislike this episode, but I didn't think it was that bad. I gave it a 7. I thought that the strongest scenes were with Roose, Jaime, and Brienne (lol at the dress!). I only wish it was longer. The Wall scenes were really good, minus the sappy final one, and Edmure wanting to pick his own Frey was hilarious. Those Frey guys were very odd looking!

I'm over Theon and Bran. They're both boring me, nothing is going on, and the whole "where is Theon/who is that guy?" thing has stretched out for far too long.

I'm curious to see how long they will stretch Jaime's journey to KL. Because he arrives AFTER the PW (because of that siiiick scene with Cersei) and I'm a believer that PW won't be til S4, so will the rest of S3 just be him journeying (and going back to get Bri of course)? There are still four eppys left.

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I always enjoy the little chats between Varys and Littlefinger. Probably the intellectual highpoints of the show.

Same, but I detest the fact that LF just reveals information to Varys so easily.

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When it zoomed out from sam and gilly in the woods, i was thinking "ooooooooooo Coldhands!"

Brain fart, can someone remind me what signifigance the "give my regards to Robb" quote has?

IIRC, Jaimie says it to Roose as he leaves and then at the RW, the person that kills Robb says something along the lines of "Jaimie Lannister sends his regards"... am I missing anything else?

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I can't help but feel like HBO has dug themselves a hole in regards to Loras being the only Tyrell son. By not including at least one of Garlan or Willas, High Garden will be left without an heir once Loras becomes Kingsguard, which he will. Having even the slightest possibility that Highgarden will be left without a male heir seems non sensical for a family like the Tyrells who are seemingly extremely careful and thoroughly plan all of their decisions. They would undoubtedly have more sons instead of just the one.

Also, how is it going to work when in book 5 Loras is up at Dragonstone and Garlan is off in the Reach defending Highgarden from the Greyjoys?

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IIRC, Jaimie says it to Roose as he leaves and then at the RW, the person that kills Robb says something along the lines of "Jaimie Lannister sends his regards"... am I missing anything else?

Correct. Since it is not specifically stated during the Red Wedding, what gives it away to the reader that it was Roose Bolton who dealt the killing blow to Robb was the description of his attire and that quote.

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GRRT himself has stated that D&D could have aliens invade Westeros if they wanted to, so really if the show makes what I consider big changes to the story, I just don't consider it canon. :D

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Other things about this episode:

Finally the terrible character of Ros is dead. I'm baffled by the people who are upset by this scene.

Littlefinger had some good dialogue.

The climb up the Wall was very exciting.

Starting to see glimpses of the Tormund from the books. Only just.

Sort of an odd choice for Ygritte to know that Jon has not turned from the Night's Watch.

Wonder how the whole Gendy/Melisandre storyline will play out. Will Gendry be saved by Davos then rejoin the BWB? Being saved seems like but rejoining the BWB seems doubtful.

Whatever happens, I wonder if DnD are foreshadowing things (or getting ahead of themselves) that will happen in the yet unreleased books. If Gendry dies in the show, is it likely he doesn't have any further part to play in the books? If Gendry lives but does not join the BWB, then is it that Gendry's time in the books with BWB is likely just temporary and not important until we find out what he does next? And if the latter is true, when we see what Gendry does next in the show, may it be a spoiler for his role in the upcoming books.?

Edited by ckal

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I really liked the scene with Melisandre, Thoros, and Beric. I thought it was very insightful, and I love hearing Valyrian spoken. However, I HATED her interaction with Arya. HATED it. I wish DD would stop putting in bits and pieces of the future books. Let us read them on our own whenever they come out. It already sucks that the show might surpass the books.

Wait, so the show is supposed to never foreshadow what happens in later books, because some people want to read the books first? This makes no sense as a criticism.

Might? Please, the show is definitely going to come out before the books, unless George suddenly halves his usual writing time.

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The Climb: . I think they could have had the experienced climbers go first as in the book - not Jon and Ygritte being in the first team without ruining the story or taking longer. It was cheap and gimmicky.

The scene of Sam and Gilly was sweet and not completely ruined by Sam pulling that giant obsidian dagger out of his a**

Another thing I'm wondering about not having the first team climb the wall, we should have met Val by now, right? At least in Mance's tent. Are they not going to do the baby switch, or not going to have Stannis offer the wildling princess to Jon? They seem to be doing everything they can to make the Wall storyline as BORING as they possibly can.

I guess the Sam actor is doing a good job because I completely understand why everyone in the NW hates him.

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Another thing I'm wondering about not having the first team climb the wall, we should have met Val by now, right? At least in Mance's tent. Are they not going to do the baby switch, or not going to have Stannis offer the wildling princess to Jon? They seem to be doing everything they can to make the Wall storyline as BORING as they possibly can.

I guess the Sam actor is doing a good job because I completely understand why everyone in the NW hates him.

They'll prob just introduce Val an episode or two before Sam & Gilly set sail. :bang:

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A few different points:

The show is definitely playing up the religious fanaticism of the BwB, rather than the Robin Hood element. It's a change from the book, but one I'm interested in - remember when the BwB first appeared a few episodes ago, some remarked that they appeared too much the Merry Men cliche. At least the "one true god" element will take them away from that much-trodden terrain. So far as the BwB goes, I like the change; but I want the show to do a lot more to bring forward the suffering of the normal people of the Riverlands, and in that regard the change worries me.

I'm glad Jon Snow finally got to do something. OK, it was "just" swinging on the rope and saving his and Ygritte's lives, but that's one of the few times it's seemed like he's not just stared dully at someone, and then slowly realized "Oh, I guess I'd better do this." Plus the "Aren't you?" scared exchange was one of the first hints I've got that he may actually be a pleasant fellow to be around. Hey, the man can show a trace of a smile!

Poor Orell. Am I the only one who thinks that his cutting the rope would have been the right thing to do? Sure, cruel to those two, but better than all four dying.

Something that's been mentioned, but not quite highlighted enough: yes, Ros's death emphasizes Joff's sadism, and we already knew that, but much more importantly, it shows how dangerous and baleful Baelish (sorry) is. He's been a mustache-twirling twit for far too long, and now there's actually more menace backing him up. However, I wasn't a big fan of the final speech: "You sly dog! You got me monologuing!" I don't at all understand how Sansa or anyone else could possibly trust show-Littlefinger. He's too transparently a villain, and has been for a long time - but now with Ros's death, he's a villain that's dangerous rather than just full of himself.

I loved the scene between Loras and Sansa. Loras is trying, he's really trying, to do the right thing and be something of a gentleman, but he just doesn't have a clue. And Sansa doesn't have a clue in her own way. Two fairly decent but not particularly bright people trying to find their way in a horrible world.

I liked the attempt to juxtapose Littlefinger's nihilism with the gorgeous sunset falling upon Jon and Ygritte, the sweet young lovers (or are they?) (and have we EVER seen direct sunlight on Jon before?) - but the overall effect was just a bit too ham-fisted.

I don't know why people care about the show "spoiling" elements in future book. First of all, prophecies are so vague they can be retconned to mean anything, whether it be three kills or three disguises or a game of marbles that Arya wins. Second, accept it - the show is either going to end too early, without an ending, or it will pass GRRM. Probably in three years. And then the books will later come out, and most people will talk about how much better they are than the TV show, while the new breed of TV show purists will complain about how GRRM ruined D&D's perfect story.

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Remember that fucking Hornblower

Cersei........the most beautiful woman in all the seven kingdoms.......Hmm, yea right I don't think so. Aside from being Queen Regent and having sexy cheekbones she ain't nothing special. The Title of Most Beautiful Woman in the Seven Kingdoms falls to either Sansa, Margaery, or Cat.

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Hey -- a prophecy from Melisandre! Arya will kill someone with brown eyes, someone with blue eyes and someone with green eyes. Any guesses?

I liked the reframing of Jon/Ygritte as two "lovers against the world." Closing montage and final shot quite effective.

Less effective -- too much Theon with too few answers. Jaime, Brienne and Bolton get short shrift (no mention of "sapphires.") Could have skipped Bran and Sam/Gilly for as much as they did with the,.

BTW, I think Sansa was crying because Tyrion gave her the true scoop regarding her marriage, and she was watching her only other option (LF) sail out of sight.

I thought the eyes thing was referencing Arya's ability to change faces.

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Once again, to the people complaining about the Theon/Ramsay scenes, of course you might find it boring. YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO THE BOY IS!! The tv audience doesn't know what happens to Theon. If they both just show up two seasons later, the audience won't care/buy the idea of "Just take our word for it, this Ramsay guy is a bad bad man."

Theon's transformation into Reek has to be shown on television for it to work. Books and TV are completely different in the way you set up a story.

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Wonder how the whole Gendy/Melisandre storyline will play out. Will Gendry be saved by Davos then rejoin the BWB? Being saved seems like but rejoining the BWB seems doubtful.

Gendry will probably take up the role of Edric Storm in the books - leeched of his blood by Melisandre to use, but spirited away by men at the orders of Davos. Rather than being whisked off to the Free Cities, he could be returned to the BwB.

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when we see what Gendry does next in the show, may it be a spoiler for his role in the upcoming books.?

It may, or it may not, be reflective of what happens to him in the books, so why worry about it?

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Once again, to the people complaining about the Theon/Ramsay scenes, of course you might find it boring. YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO THE BOY IS!! The tv audience doesn't know what happens to Theon. If they both just show up two seasons later, the audience won't care/buy the idea of "Just take our word for it, this Ramsay guy is a bad bad man."

Theon's transformation into Reek has to be shown on television for it to work. Books and TV are completely different in the way you set up a story.

That's true but I still think they could do it without so much screen time. This scene didn't reveal anything the viewer didn't know already, except that the Boy is not a Karstark or an Umber. And let's face it- the vast majority of TV only viewers can barely distinguish the great houses from each other. Expecting them to pick up on a process of elimination reference to the lesser northern families is a stretch. As a result, the scene is just a repeat of what we've seen all season.

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