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[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

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I actually think it's the opposite. I think it's a hint as to Edric's potential importance in later books. It definitely seemed as though Gendry felt betrayed by the Brotherhood, it's hard to see him winding up back there. But if he just takes over Edric's story from here, it seems if anything it's a hint that Edric could be important down the road, since they're killing off the Gendry storyline in favor of the Edric one.

While I understand your line of thinking. I felt like when Edric gets shipped off it was the end of whatever importance he had.

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As for Shae and Sansa -- I definitely think they're setting up Shae being jealous of Sansa and that being why she turns against Tyrion later on.

A jealous whore? Especially in the show it always seemed to me so obvious she is just with Tyrion to spy for Tywin. I never got why Tyrion never presumed as much...

If you want the exact same story in the show then you don't understand how adaptations work. There are too many characters for the budget to allow all of them. It isn't possible. The show is doing an amazing job of streamlining and working within it's resources.

It has its advantages. Arya and Tywin, Loras the heir, no Edrik, lonely Shireen, her relationship with Davos this elements are far superior to the original.

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I think there's a key piece of the Theon story that's being missed by almost everyone. It's not just an excuse to give Alfie Allen screen time, and it's also not just a replacement for the Reek storyline. It's also a replacement for the Hornwood inheritance problem. This was the first we hear about Ramsay at all, and even if we don't directly meet the character, it shows his extreme sadism and brutality. This is an important aspect of the character, and one we don't get with the Reek story. With Reek we see the deviousness and cunning, but we don't see the sheer brutality. Transmuting the Reek and Hornwood stories into the "Boy" story shows both elements of the character, and yes, gives Alfie Allen something to do.

Beyond that, I think it's also a setup to show non-book readers some of the darkness that surrounds House Bolton. In the books, we get a decent sense of this through Roose, but in ways that would be difficult to depict in the show--the way people feel when he speaks, his interactions with the other lords, details about the history of tensions between House Bolton and Stark, etc. For newbies, it would be completely shocking not just that the RW happens, but that when Roose is actually the one to finish Robb, it would be downright confusing. He's been Robb's most trusted general for the last two seasons, whereas in the books he has very little direct interaction with Robb after they split up at the Twins.

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Did you read them after they all came out recently? Because your complaint about not seeing one character for one episode is silly when simultaneously complaining that they are deviating too much.

Theon needs to have his torture at least introduced to the audience for the sake of television. It does not work like it does when reading a book.

No, but I see that you have. Good for u ;)

My point was that we get to see meaningles Theon torture scenes , who is not in the book btw , instead of Daenerys - much like last year we had meaningles sex scenes while cutting out big parts of the book.

There is no real need to see Theon now...as much as there were no need last year to see extra scenes to get that Geoffry is psycho.

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While I understand your line of thinking. I felt like when Edric gets shipped off it was the end of whatever importance he had.

I think I'm with ckal. I think Gendry is the one that still has a massive role. Who knows though really? Doesn't Gendry show up out at Crackclaw anyway? That's one of the easiest places to sail to from Dragonstone.

I would have thought so as well just based on the books, but that's more just based on the heavier role Gendry has had so far. There's plenty of speculation that Edric's role isn't over, and his departure and function to this point is quite a bit more ambiguous. Gendry's served a number of purposes, and there's not a whole lot of hint that he has anything important left to do. Edric's function still seems like something of a mystery. After watching this episode, I definitely came away leaning more towards the idea that we'll see Edric again in the books, and that in the show, Gendry is just going to take over that story, since he doesn't really have any huge functions that we know of left to fill. We only really see him again in the books after this point when Brienne shows up at the Crossroads Inn, and he doesn't do anything that Anguy couldn't do. The only thing we'd miss out in is her confusing him for Renly, and that could still theoretically happen sometime later if she encounters him on Edric's path.

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I find this incredibly funny that you're complaining of not seeing Dany for one week whereas people who read the books waited 10 FUCKING YEARS to read a Dany chapter because George skipped her for an entire book.

I feel your pain. I only just read the books last year so it was a month for me to read AFFC to not have any idea what was going on with Dany. Still too long!

I joke of course because who knows how many months/years it will be until the next Dany chapter

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I would have thought so as well just based on the books, but that's more just based on the heavier role Gendry has had so far. There's plenty of speculation that Edric's role isn't over, and his departure and function to this point is quite a bit more ambiguous. Gendry's served a number of purposes, and there's not a whole lot of hint that he has anything important left to do. Edric's function still seems like something of a mystery. After watching this episode, I definitely came away leaning more towards the idea that we'll see Edric again in the books, and that in the show, Gendry is just going to take over that story, since he doesn't really have any huge functions that we know of left to fill. We only really see him again in the books after this point when Brienne shows up at the Crossroads Inn, and he doesn't do anything that Anguy couldn't do. The only thing we'd miss out in is her confusing him for Renly, and that could still theoretically happen sometime later if she encounters him on Edric's path.

Originally tried to post images of all three of them, but take a look at pics of Renly compared to Anguy and Gendry in the show too, Anguy actually kind of looks a bit like Renly, while Gendry doesn't really at all. Could they be setting Anguy up to be another of Robert's bastards somehow....?

Edited by Meddler

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I always thought that Gendry had a bigger role coming in the last books. I thought he would be the one to get her away from the FM, telling her about Sansa, Bran, and Rickon. Maybe now when he leaves Dragonstone ( I assume Davos will free him ) he will end up in Braavos?

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Or Edric was just some bastard boy they stole from Storm's End. He played with Shireen. Melisandre wanted to sacrifice him. Davos saves him and ships him out of the picture. Story over of Edric Storm.

Sure, but I'm far from the first one to propose he might come back. That kind of story dressing is indeed characteristic of GRRM, but so is having something appear as such only to turn out to be crucial. I definitely wasn't a huge Edric theorist until this episode of the show, but it makes me wonder why they couldn't come up with an easier way of replacing Edric. At the very least, it takes Gendry way on a different path, and makes me think his story is less significant than I'd hoped (I always liked him in the books).

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Gendry replacing Edric could be because there is some future connection between Gendry and The Onion Knight. That way they get in a couple of scenes. Maybe The Onion Knight meets up with Gendry coming from White Harbor.

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I have to ask, what is with all the hate for Ros in this forum? I saw her as a pretty strong character when the series has stripped much of Cat's and Dany's (at least during the 2nd season) strength away and almost all of Cersei's. I think one of the best points in the novel were the characterization of very tough women in a male driven world and I liked Ros as an addition. What is so wrong with her?

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Gendry replacing Edric could be because there is some future connection between Gendry and The Onion Knight. That way they get in a couple of scenes. Maybe The Onion Knight meets up with Gendry coming from White Harbor.

Also possible, but that would entail getting Gendry back to the Brotherhood, which I just can't see happening in the show at this point. They sold him out, he was clearly hurt by it, and they're taking money seemed to reinforce that this was not meant as a benevolent or redeemable action on their part.

All I'm saying is after seeing the Gendry go off with Mel, and it becoming clear he was replacing Edric, my gut reaction was that it seems much more plausible now that Edric has a more important role in the future of the story than Gendry, which wasn't something I really gave much credence to before. I'd read other people speculating such, and never really thought much about it one way or another, but this seems like a point in favor of such speculation, since the book Gendry storyline seems likely, for all intents and purposes, over, and the Edric one is directly replacing it.

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What I liked:

- The climb and the cheesy hopeless romantic ending with Jon and Ygritte.

The climb was visually impressive and scary (ok, I'm scared of heights by myself :ack: ). The cutting of the rope by Orell was also needed, I don't get why people complaining about too much action. It's a TV show and the climb was the title of the Episode - there has to be a terrifying moment otherwise it would come over as too much of a cakewalk.

The romantic kiss at the end was also pretty touching. I don't care if it's cheesy, there are also some cheesy kissing moments in the books too. I think it came over as strong since Ygritte and Jon had the discussion about betrayal before... the death of Ygritte has to have some sort of impact on the viewer at least. Actually I didn't really care for this romance in the books.

I really liked her in this episode. I thought her accent was annyoing but in this episode, with the clothes and the messed up hair, she really comes over as being a wildling.

- Littlefingers ladder-monologue. I like voice-overs over different scenes in this show, and it's never wrong to show how much of a maniac Joffrey is. And they finally gave Littlefinger something badass and villianized him. Before that he was like Cersei's bitch.

- Ramsey and Theon. Alfie continues to be the best actor on the show, together with Charles Dance. Sadly he only has torture porn in this season so he won't get much critical appreciation. And the Ramsey guy - well, actually I imagined Ramsey a bit more animalistic and savage, this portayal is more like a typical Hannibal-Lector-Hollywood-psychopath thing. But he does it so well. I really liked how he puts the knife towards his own finger before he tells Theon he is lying, that really shows the audience "Hey, this guy has some serious issues". It implies that there is something more going on in his twisted mind than just sadism.

What I did not like so much:

- Arya and Mel. I never really liked the Gendry and BwB storyline in the books, maybe that's way. I know it has to be done, since Gendry is Edric now, and Arya needs scenes because she can't go to Braavos too early. But it bored the hell out of me. But that's maybe just me

- Despite how good NCW and the guy who plays Roose Bolton is, I expected that scene to bit a lot more dramatic - it felt rushed inbetween other importent scenes which doesn't do that chapter justice, since it actually reveals for the first time that Roose is playing his own game. Maybe we see more of that when he leaves Harrenhall with Jamie. And I expected the hall to be bigger. I know, the Budget, but it can't be so difficult to find a bigger indoor location??

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I'm starting to really like ShowAnguy. It's a shame, because I think its almost a certainty that the Hound is going to kill him :(

I kinda think that when UnCat happens and the BWB split, Anguy stays with UnCat and Thoros takes the other half. That way Davos can save Gendry and get him back to the river lands so he can become the blacksmith at the inn and join with Anguy's group, since he had no part in selling Gendry. Then he will be able to meet Brienne and go on with how it is in the book. Maybe...

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What kind of life has Gendry had so far? He apprenticed to a blacksmith. Ok probably not so bad other than he doesn't know who his dad is. He then was forced marched out of the capital into the Nights Watch. Then the King has assassins sent after him. Then he is apart of a bloodbath that ends him up at the torture of Harranhal. And then...there is obviously more but it wouldn't take too much to have Gendry back where he wasn't choosing.

Edited by Arbor Gold I'm Sold

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I have to ask, what is with all the hate for Ros in this forum? I saw her as a pretty strong character when the series has stripped much of Cat's and Dany's (at least during the 2nd season) strength away and almost all of Cersei's. I think one of the best points in the novel were the characterization of very tough women in a male driven world and I liked Ros as an addition. What is so wrong with her?

I disliked the character of Ros in the TV series because she was not in the book at all. GRRM created so many fascinating characters, many of them strong women in a patriarchal society, and every minute of screen time devoted to Ros was a minute that could have been given to one of the real ASoIaF characters. For the amount of time given to Ros, we could have had Jeyne Poole's story in AGOT and ADWD, or more screen time for Arya or Sansa or Cat or Myrcella, or even had the actual prostitutes from the book - Chataya and Alayaya (who gave ample evidence that even a beautiful, elite young courtesan could be abused by powerful people).

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For the amount of time given to Ros, we could have had ... Chataya and Alayaya (who gave ample evidence that even a beautiful, elite young courtesan could be abused by powerful people).

This would have been absolutely horrible, horrible idea. The show has already been accused of racism, if two of the only black women in the show are prostitutes that worship sex... The shitstorm would be huge!

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