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[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

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Him and Jaime are my favourite bits of the season so far. I can't wait for more scenes with Iwan Rheon; wasn't sure about him when he was first cast but he's definitely proved me wrong. Great actor!

Agreed about the Jaime bit, these two arcs are driving the story for me personally. Rheon was fantastic in the episode last night, can't wait to see when he gets to the meaty aspects of Ramsay later on!

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here is our review of this weeks episode.

I;m not sold on Rheon yet. I don't want him to go all wacky on Ramsay.

I love Roose and Tywin, Queen of Thorns

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Yeah that's true. Apparently Howland Reed and Ned Stark were quite close as well because in the books Meera and Jojen seem to know a lot of the rumours/tales about Ned that they tell Bran who was left clueless to what seems to be some of the better known Westeros celebrity gossip. Especially regarding Ashara

I wish they had told the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, instead of the stupid Osha and Meera fight.

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Him and Jaime are my favourite bits of the season so far. I can't wait for more scenes with Iwan Rheon; wasn't sure about him when he was first cast but he's definitely proved me wrong. Great actor!

I do think it's a bit messy, but I am digging it. They basically took the Hornwood Inheritance, the Reek storyline, and the background we hear from Theon in ADwD and rolled it into one package. It serves a number of purposes. It shows off Ramsay's cruelty (introduced in the book via the Hornwood Inheritance), his deviousness (the Reek storyline), informs Ramsay that the Stark kids are still alive (also happens during Reek), shows the darkness surrounding House Bolton prior to the RW (expressed more through Roose in the books, difficult to do in the same way in the show), etc.

I didn't really get the point making Theon think he was in the Karhold, that comes off as confusing to me to non-readers who are still trying to figure out what's going on. I guess I see what they were trying to do, but I'm just not sure it was a good idea to use the Karstarks, since they were serving another purpose at the time--it's something that makes readers kind of raise an eyebrow, but seems totally plausible to non-book readers, and doesn't do anything except give them ammo to misunderstand. If they'd used something more random (maybe the Hornwood as a nod?), a place the first-time viewers would be skeptical about, it might have played a bit better. There are a few things like that about the whole thing that didn't feel "tight," but overall, I do think it's one of the stronger elements they've added to the narrative, and I definitely get what purposes it's meant to serve.

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A few questions raised by "The Climb":

Why is it that Tywin previously (S3E01) referred to Jaime as his "son and rightful heir" in his slap down of Tyrion even though Jamie has been (and I presume still is) in the Kingsguard (and therefore must have sworn a vow to renounce all claims to family and property (and women)?

Why is it that in the discussion with the Queen of Thorns in S3E06 Tywin says that he will appoint Loras Tyrell to the kingsguard, thus denying the Tyrells of an heir and resulting in the end of their line?

The bigger question is how will B&B need to change the story so that when Loras goes into the Kingsguard (to avoid marrying Cersei) the Tyrells are not destroyed?

Could it be that they could possibly let Cersei actually marry Loras? Now THAT would be a major change from the books (but an interesting one!)

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Is anyone else really, really digging Theon's arc this season? I don't understand the impatience, we know who is torturing him, but all these mind games are fantastic development for the "relationship" Theon and Ramsay have.

Alfie Allen's Theon is much more important to the show than he is to the books at this point, and I'm loving it.

I agree. This is one of the changes from the book that I absolutely love.

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A few questions raised by "The Climb":

Why is it that Tywin previously (S3E01) referred to Jaime as his "son and rightful heir" in his slap down of Tyrion even though Jamie has been (and I presume still is) in the Kingsguard (and therefore must have sworn a vow to renounce all claims to family and property (and women)?

Why is it that in the discussion with the Queen of Thorns in S3E06 Tywin says that he will appoint Loras Tyrell to the kingsguard, thus denying the Tyrells of an heir and resulting in the end of their line?

The bigger question is how will B&B need to change the story so that when Loras goes into the Kingsguard (to avoid marrying Cersei) the Tyrells are not destroyed?

Could it be that they could possibly let Cersei actually marry Loras? Now THAT would be a major change from the books (but an interesting one!)

Well in the books, it's pretty strongly implied that Tywin is in almost complete denial of the notion that Jaime won't inherit the Rock due to his vows. Perhaps this is even part of what Cersei was thinking when she dismissed Barristan, setting a precedent for Jaime down the line. However, Tywin calling specific attention to the same set of details as they involve Loras is interesting, you are right about that. I wouldn't say it's completely out of character, but it does raise some problems the show is going to have to find a way to deal with, and ones that they could have quite easily dealt with just by giving Loras a brother, even if they'd made Garlan or Willas a younger brother or something.

I kind of figured from the beginning that Cersei was going to have to marry Loras, or at least get engaged, but she would get out of it the same way she tried to dispose of him in AFfC--by encouraging to go on a borderline suicide mission to take Dragonstone unnecessarily. That seemed the natural course when Cersei was told she'd marry Loras.

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Everyones so upset about the Theon arc...

Before this season started, and it was just casting confirmation/speculation, i was most excited for Ramsay. Then the "rumor" surfaced that its creepy Simon (Iwan in Misfists), and i couldnt be happier. Whenever hes on screen, i just want more!

Theon on the other hand.... Alfie talks funny. :P

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Everyones so upset about the Theon arc...

Before this season started, and it was just casting confirmation/speculation, i was most excited for Ramsay. Then the "rumor" surfaced that its creepy Simon (Iwan in Misfists), and i couldnt be happier. Whenever hes on screen, i just want more!

Theon on the other hand.... Alfie talks funny. :P

He actually talks quite normally. That's his Iron Islander accent he's putting on lol. I was surprised when I heard him in interviews.

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Is it weird that I could watch a whole episode of Ramsay/Theon?! The casting for house Bolton is superb imo.

Yes, it is weird and the casting is indeed superb

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Loved the appearance of Yunkai in the intro!

I'm torn on this whole Ramsay/Theon storyline. On the one hand, I understand why they're showing us what's going on at this point in the story, since it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have Theon disappear for two seasons, but the mind games are dragging on a bit too long. The whole Karhold bit was extraneous.

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Like any tall structure, the width at the bottom with be substantially wider than the top. Think Pyramids, Eiffel Tower, CN Tower etc. etc.

They made the wall way too thin. Jon and Ygritte looked over the lip on the North side, turned around, walked across a little path, and were at the Southern edge. Aren't there supposed to be tunnels and passages through the ice? 700 hundred feet tall and 12 feet wide: you'd expect it to be swaying back and forth. The wildlings could have just dug right through it.

The climb up the wall was thrilling though. As an action sequence, it was more successful than you normally see in a television show.

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Ahh the legendary 3 eyed Lannister known throughout the realm as Blinky, Blinky Lannister Tyrions evil little brother.

Blinky Lannister. I like it.

I was only referencing the green eyed person equalling a Lannister, but I had forgotten that book eye color doesn't translate over to the show. I had thought at first that it was a clue as to whom Arya would kill somewhere down the line.

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Loved the appearance of Yunkai in the intro!

I'm torn on this whole Ramsay/Theon storyline. On the one hand, I understand why they're showing us what's going on at this point in the story, since it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have Theon disappear for two seasons, but the mind games are dragging on a bit too long. The whole Karhold bit was extraneous.

I agree. My fear is that we are forced to see all this torture porn and for whatever reason the tv show doesn't even fully utilize Reek later, despite how well played out it is. Don't get me wrong Alife is owning this role. But geez! Reek deserves his own damn-spin off series with this much screen time being thrown at him.

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I was only referencing the green eyed person equalling a Lannister, but I had forgotten that book eye color doesn't translate over to the show.

That's true, although i like that both Roose & Ramsay have quite pale eyes in the show - i'm pretty much loving everything about House Bolton right now, could listen to Ramsay for hours, that dudes funny!!

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Slightly different take on the Arya/Mel scene. Given Arya's response, I thought Arya connected those colors with the three people from her list she shot "head, breast, balls" with arrows earlier in the episode. Any chance those eye colors match with what Mel's "prophecy"?

Note I am not saying Melisandre actually made any kind of a real prophecy here (I mean how generic can you get with the eye colors and the dramatic we will meet again), but that Arya may have believed she did.

Overall, the entire Mel/Brotherhood interlude reinforced for me my belief that Mel is a fraud when it comes to Rhollor. What I'm still unsure of is whether she is actively aware that she is a fraud or if she is a true believer blind to the fact that she is serving the dark instead of the light. Which makes me think of the basic difference between Littlefinger and Varys summed up so well in this episode.

Really been loving the way that different scenes have been resonating together in the episodes this season.

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No I think this is a reference to Arya going "blind" during her training to become a FM.

No the eyes are shut forever, ie dead.

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I agree. This is one of the changes from the book that I absolutely love.

Not a change really is it? Theon's POV describe what happened to him and it seems pretty much in line with the show action

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The ending was unintentional comedy gold for me. It looked so much in every respect like the ending of the corniest kind of romantic Hollywood movies it just really made me laugh.

I expected the Paramount lady to fade in

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