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[Book Spoilers] EP306 Discussion

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I love how they totally gave Tyrion a Jerry Springer moment with Sansa and Shae, the look of suspicion on Shae's face was priceless. God what an awkward moment for Tyrion lol, and you can sort of see that D&D are leading Shae down a jealousy path that will ultimately lead to her betraying Tyrion on the show to possibly make up for how it was done in the books.

Edited by Jon Icefyre

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I disliked the character of Ros in the TV series because she was not in the book at all. GRRM created so many fascinating characters, many of them strong women in a patriarchal society, and every minute of screen time devoted to Ros was a minute that could have been given to one of the real ASoIaF characters. For the amount of time given to Ros, we could have had Jeyne Poole's story in AGOT and ADWD, or more screen time for Arya or Sansa or Cat or Myrcella, or even had the actual prostitutes from the book - Chataya and Alayaya (who gave ample evidence that even a beautiful, elite young courtesan could be abused by powerful people).

Ros was the TV shows plot device. They needed a character who could interact with Theon in Season 1 and Varys and Littlefinger in Season 2/3 to give those characters scenes. Plus she filled that hole caused by the lack of Alaya (or whatever that brothel momma was called in ACoK) and Dontos. I'd say she did her job.

I mean, she was so much of a side character, only-TV-viewers were asking who that woman was Joffrey killed at the end of this episode. I always got the impression, only book readers were caring about this character and even know her name...

I would state that if you all were watching another show not being based on the books you've read, you won't mind her either.

Edited by Xasthur

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No, but I see that you have. Good for u ;)

My point was that we get to see meaningles Theon torture scenes , who is not in the book btw , instead of Daenerys - much like last year we had meaningles sex scenes while cutting out big parts of the book.

There is no real need to see Theon now...as much as there were no need last year to see extra scenes to get that Geoffry is psycho.

You cant just cut out Theon for what would be 2 books worth of show. Theres no guarantee that Alfie is just gonna sit around and turn down any work that might come his way. We have gone episodes this season without seeing Robb, Theon and Bran and probably almost everyone else during the entire show. It happens, 1 episode without Dany isnt gonna hurt anybody.

And Alfie is an amazing actor.

Edited by -Ghost-

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The (Little) Rope: I will say that while I am relatively unimpressed with the “Obvious” scenes wherein characters who are talking should not be actually talking, I thought that the LF-Varys back-and-forth was great. Varys, strangely, represents optimism, hope and fulfillment; LF represents a bleak dystopia wherein all there is are rope and ash. And he is the one watching others climb. That dichotomy was a very well-needed bookmark for this episode and this series. Poor Roz.

Well said. It’s interesting to watch Varys’ progression, as he is one of the quieter web-spinners in the GoT. Both he and LF have been enigmatic dark horses from the start, but I think GRRM has played a very subtle game with Varys. Think back to Ned asking Varys whom he served, and Varys answered “The realm.” Which, upon re-reading through DotD, turns out to be quite true. From the start, he has been grooming the Seven Kingdoms for little Aegon Bluehair’s ascension to the Iron Throne, while Littlefinger’s agenda—no less insidious but in the end less ambitious—had to do more with his own goals and greed. (Recall that fabulous scene in S2 where Cersei takes notice of the Mockingbird pin—she may not be as clever as she thinks she is, but she’s smart enough to know that means LF has created his own “house” and is no man’s or king’s creature.)

I think this has been mentioned before but does anyone think that the non-book readers should have no illusions as to who has Theon?

Even for bookies, there is a lot to keep up with and remember, so not really. But I do think they should just spill the beans already. My unsullied husband has watched each show twice and when I said that “Karhold” was a lie and tried to explain who Ramsay was, he was like, “Don’t care! Too much!” And the dude is a film critic, lol.

The means of Ros’ death was disgusting and unnecessary. I understand we need to ramp up the Joffrey hate in time for the RW, but still—it was pornographic and gratuitous. I think part of the snark about people come out of the closet and saying, “Boo, they killed poor Ros,” was because a lot of us who liked her were intimidated about speaking up before in the face of all the hate.

My favorite part was how Frey-like those Freys look. There is nothing liked a Frey, is there? Except the lovely Roslind. Edmure needs to STFU and soonest.

Line of the night: “It’s more of a brooch, really.” Girl, I am living for your brocade, hunty.

Kayso, are we going to talk about Brienne in her shabby pink dress, or just pretend it didn’t happen because it’s such a sad sight to see?

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1. Is Mel going to meet Arya in the books? Will Arya be the one who finishes off Queen Cersei posing as the corpse of Tyrion?

Remember they told the one hooker in Braavos who folks think is Tysha that her love will return to her one day, but her love would be already dead. Arya can assume Tyrion's body as the FM do and go and finish off Cersei . . .

2. Mel going to meet Arya, is that a part of an ending that GRRM told D and D about that we got informed about last night?

Still has me guessing . .

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not only does Jojen have greensight but he's also on a mission and was probably prepared, which encompasses getting to know about the starks' background both through his sight and through howland reed.

Yeah that's true. Apparently Howland Reed and Ned Stark were quite close as well because in the books Meera and Jojen seem to know a lot of the rumours/tales about Ned that they tell Bran who was left clueless to what seems to be some of the better known Westeros celebrity gossip. Especially regarding Ashara

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TBH I kinda feel bad for Loras, I mean, sure, Sansa isn't exactly his cup of tea (to put it mildly) but you have to figure the reaction to finding out he has to marry Cersei instead is gonna be one of "Wait, can we got back to the original plan? I've just decided I'm totally cool with the marrying Sansa part."

Even with the extreme awkwardness, I sorta felt in his scene with Sansa he was starting to warm up to the idea a little, in a "to be intellectually honest, things could probably go a lot worse" kind of way. Well, guess what... things just got worse.

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I actually thought that Loras was starting to like Sansa as a person, and was trying to overcome the awkwardness of the situation (and he certainly was more aware of it than she was, since he was the gay man who had lost the love of his life and Sansa was clueless as to her supposed bridegroom's sexual orientation). They actually seemed like two attractive young people who had not thought they would come together, were being brought to an arranged marriage, and were trying to get to know each other before the wedding.

I was soooo glad to see Ros dead. I'd have preferred her to exit the series by embezzling a fortune from Littlefinger and running off to start her own brothel in Pentos, but at least she's gone.

I'm tired of the Varys/Littlefinger Cryptic Conversations. I couldn't tell what the heck Littlefinger was portentiously babbling about, and didn't care.

It's amazing how many different reactions there are to the show. I agree with you about Sansa/Loras and also about the demise of Ros (I didn't share the fandom's general hatred for her but I am glad to see her gone). I like your version of her exit from the show.

Howver, I must disagree with your interpretation of the Varys/Littlefinger scene in the strongest terms!

To me that scene was one of the most important scenes not only of the episode, but perhaps of the series itself. Here is what I said about it in my blog:

And thus we see that "The Climb" in the title also refers to the climb from anonymity and poverty to prominence and wealth, i.e. ambition or upward social mobility. And it is clear that Lord Baelish is one of the most ambitious men in Westeros, and is, as Varys has said, "the most dangerous man in the Seven Kingdoms" and someone who "would burn down the realm if it meant he could be king of the ashes."

[...]

It's a key scene not just for the episode or even this season, but one that defines the ethos of the show itself. It's interesting that the line is said by the actor Aiden Gillen, who played another key role in another great HBO television series about ideology, systems of power and ambition:
The Wire
. In some sense all great fiction is about these things, and
Game of Thrones
is rapidly joining that celebrated canon.

I love every scene between Littlefinger and Varys. Conlon Keith and Aiden Gillen are killing it, IMHO.

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This would have been absolutely horrible, horrible idea. The show has already been accused of racism, if two of the only black women in the show are prostitutes that worship sex... The shitstorm would be huge!

Not really. Chataya may "worship sex" but she's also a powerful woman, and Alayaya begins teaching herself to read.

They're certainly a far better portrayal of characters of colour than the Dothraki or Xaro Xhoan Daxos.

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Does anyone else think that Melissandre learning about Beric's rezzes is confirmation that she will rez Jon in book 6? To me at least it makes a lot of sense.

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I just spoke with my favourite non-reading friend (he catches all hints), and he told me that he had no problem understanding what was going on with the Freys. He said "Robb forged an alliance with the Freys based on his marrying one of Walder's daughters. He married Talisa instead, so the alliance was broken. He now needs the Freys again. What's tricky about it?". So, somehow the message must have passed. I'm quite relieved!

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I just spoke with my favourite non-reading friend (he catches all hints), and he told me that he had no problem understanding what was going on with the Freys. He said "Robb forged an alliance with the Freys based on his marrying one of Walder's daughters. He married Talisa instead, so the alliance was broken. He now needs the Freys again. What's tricky about it?". So, somehow the message must have passed. I'm quite relieved!

Well, if Robb saying "The man whose daughter I was supposed to marry, Walder Frey" isn't enough of a clue for people then they just don't pay attention. That only happened 8 days ago.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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I just spoke with my favourite non-reading friend (he catches all hints), and he told me that he had no problem understanding what was going on with the Freys. He said "Robb forged an alliance with the Freys based on his marrying one of Walder's daughters. He married Talisa instead, so the alliance was broken. He now needs the Freys again. What's tricky about it?". So, somehow the message must have passed. I'm quite relieved!

Hard for me to be objective about it, but I do think D&D did sell the new deal fairly convincingly. I think the idea behind this story arc is to plant the seeds of why the RW eventually ends up happening, so that it's a justifiable outcome, but at the same time sell the audience that Robb's mistakes are going to be rectified, and that everything will turn out better than expected - until suddenly, it doesn't, not at all.

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Hurray for the foreshadowing:

- Arya and the many eyes (faceless men right?)

- Sam's cool artifact (Sam the Slayer WOO i only hope there are some black brothers to witness Ed or Grenn maybe)

- You will make kings rise and fall (Gendrys blood will be used for the leeches)

Other then that:

-The wall climbing was a great and intense visual and im starting to like the Jon/Ygritte relationship even more.

-Killing Ros off im sure made book readers happy

-Littlefinger's evil speech on chaos was just great its clear they are showing a side of him we dont see to later on in the books.

-Obviously a huge deviation from the books but i really liked the scene with Beric, Mel and Thoros.

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Well, if Robb saying "The man whose daughter I was supposed to marry, Walder Frey" isn't enough of a clue for people then they just don't pay attention. That only happened 8 days ago.

Yes, that is quite clear. I was rather worried that people would not understand why and when the Freys leaved Robb, since the show did not show (!) them leaving.

Edited by The Mondrian Oak

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Is anyone else really, really digging Theon's arc this season? I don't understand the impatience, we know who is torturing him, but all these mind games are fantastic development for the "relationship" Theon and Ramsay have.

Alfie Allen's Theon is much more important to the show than he is to the books at this point, and I'm loving it.

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Is anyone else really, really digging Theon's arc this season? I don't understand the impatience, we know who is torturing him, but all these mind games are fantastic development for the "relationship" Theon and Ramsay have.

Alfie Allen's Theon is much more important to the show than he is to the books at this point, and I'm loving it.

Him and Jaime are my favourite bits of the season so far. I can't wait for more scenes with Iwan Rheon; wasn't sure about him when he was first cast but he's definitely proved me wrong. Great actor!

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