How would you rate episode 306?

[TheEvilKing]

Gave it a 5/10 (ie. average). While not a bad episode it was the weakest of the season so far.

There were some really good parts - any scenes involving Lannisters or Boltons, plus Mel and the BwB, as well as LF/Varys and Ros's horrific death scene.

Worst parts: Bran scene, Sam scene and the super cheesey final scene.

Edited May 6, 2013 by TheEvilKing

[Pure Guava]

Voted "6", thought it was pretty weak and only saved by a few decent scenes (Ramsay/Theon, Jaime/Brienne/Roose, Sam/Gilly). Everything felt so awkward and forced...seemingly too self-aware of the fact that its a tv show...dumbing down characters and using cliched tropes as if D&D were struggling harder than ever to get beyond "LOL HEY GUISE WE'RE A TV SHOW!"

Pretty disappointing stuff overall. Meh.

EDIT: And man were the sets low budget. Jesus those wall scenes looked horrible. What is this, PBS in the 70s?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Pure Guava

[Sxxman]

I would give it a 8.5, gun-to-my-head rounding down to an 8. I didn't think it was as bad as people are saying. I for one actually like what they are doing with Gendry as it makes him a more important character to the story. If I had any criticism about GRRM's books it would be that I thought Gendry would amount to more than just a smith.

I'm not going to waste time on the strong points but go straight to the weak points. I didn't like the whole Osha-Meera conflict, it seems rather forced and even though everyone complains about Ros's role, I think that Osha has been more of an annoying character IMO. Also I think that the order of the scenes seemed a little off, I for one would not have started the episode with Sam/Gilly, lovely as a coupe as they are (how can you hate them?) they're not the strongest arc to start the episode. Finally, though I do like Gendry's seemingly more meaningful role, I was a little disappointed by how easily the BWB gave him up, they're not the type of group to be bought off that easily, I guess it was the only way to keep the ball rolling but could have been better.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Sxxman

[Joyful Union]

EDIT: And man were the sets low budget. Jesus those wall scenes looked horrible. What is this, PBS in the 70s?

Low Budget??? Didnt look terrible at all, it was some of the best CGI the show has had, in no way did it look like 1970s special effects. Most TV shows have far worse CGI then this

[David Selig]

I have mixed feelings. Tywin and Olenna was just so implausible throughout I couldn't enjoy the high quality acting, I was constantly thinking "no way (s)he would say this". Tywin basically blackmailing the Tyrells, his main allies, when the war is still going on, just to get the Sansa marriage, was just really dumb. Olenna insulting Tywin throughout was also pretty stupid. And where is Mace Tyrell? He's the head of the House after all yet Olenna makes all major decisions and he's not even mentioned.

Ygritte being so in love with Jon came out of nowhere in the TV series. Kit still can't act. Thankfully Rose Leslie is so good she makes those scenes worth watching.

Melisandre's scene was great, the kind of change from the books which makes sense and was well executed. Sam and Gilly was nice. Meera and Osha was pointless.

First time I actually liked a LF scene since forever. Except for the death of Ros part, which was just wrong for so many reasons.

Sansa saying "Will they let me invite my family?" was the most ridiculous and facepalm worthy moment of the whole series.

7/10, since the rest was good.

Edited May 6, 2013 by David Selig

[Dragonstoned]

Sansa saying "Will they let me invite my family?" was the most ridiculous and facepalm worthy moment of the whole series.

I wanted Shae to facepalm her after she said that.

[Moët]

Well this is the first time an episode has brought me to the forums (bank holiday - time to geek out) with a comment so go easy on me, but I thought it was the best so far.. Not much happening plot wise, but the whole team has to be given credit for an excellent job in riffing on the themes and characters GRRM provided.

Clearly many of you novel purists will think this was a (relatively) sub-par episode due to how much it differed from the books. However I thought it was truly spectacular.

The sheer amount of subtlety in every scene and the way it respected the characters and plot, while admittedly straying from the purely canon interpretation of the source material, frankly dropped my jaw.

For instance, I have watched the Brienne, Roose and Jamie scene at least 4 times now and found new delight with each viewing. minor things such as the way NCW wavers his knife like a balance scale when discussing finances, and then stills the motion when talking about the consequences of displeasing his father, or GC's reaction to his immediate refusal to accept her staying as he is released. Now that is some serious top quality acting (and scripting ofc)!

Every scene simply drips care and attention and manages to pull off some pretty major script changes while staying true to the spirit of the source material. The fact that this is averaging 8/10 while doing so, tells me that despite this GOT has writers and actors that are more than capable of elaborating on the source material, plus Alik Sakharov has to be given credit for some superb orchestration... I give this a solid 10/10

:agree:

Indeed! Welcome to the forums. :D

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

No, it's not like slavery at all. Slavery is just about profit and that was very obviously not the case. They found out that Gendry was someone special, just like they did with Arya, and they hand him over to someone that needs him, again just like they plan to do with Arya. They are religious zealots so obviously the need of the one true god goes above everything. They serve their god by helping Melisandre and Mel does the same by giving them money.

And no, it would not have been more credible if they hadn't gotten any money. It's been established by two different events that the BwB will take money when they can. There's no honor in demanding ransom for Arya, nor taking Sandor's money, so anyone that thinks they are purely about that is plain wrong.

BwB are NOT religious zealots, far from that. Most members do not even follow Rhollor. Book BwB did not care about Stannis or king's blood, they cared about the people. Book Beric would never sell a member of BwB to a foreigner who wants to burn him alive. They basically made the most unselfish and noble character from the books a slaver.

They would ransom Arya, their hostage, to her family. They wouldn't just sell her to the highest bidder. They took Hound's money, but they gave him his life. No other faction in Westeros gives their captured enemies a fair trial. Book BwB is noble and TV BwB is just greedy.

[A Redeemed Hound]

I gave it a 6, which is a solid episode. I knew Gendry was going to take Edric Storm's place in the show. Makes sense and is easier to follow. Gendry is gone anyway after Book 3 and just have Davos free/save him instead of the little boy. No harm no foul. Plus I like Gendry and want to see more of him in the show. Liked him in the books too. Really liked Jon and Ygrette's scenes and I am finally starting to feel their connection. Love her mocking him and doing her Jon Snow voice. Tormund is getting more likeable too.

Still not a fan of Bran's storyline yet. They should have made him have the dream of Jon on the other side of the Wall. Also needs more Hodor!

Really liked the scene between Queen of Thorns and Tywin. Two powerhouses going at it. Thought it was great. Also loved the scenes with Tyrion and Cersie. Pretty funny banter actually when they are discussing their new situations.

Like the guy playing Thoros. Like Dondarion. Wish there was more Arya stuff this week by cutting the scene with Theon, which was meh. Enjoyed seeing Brienne in a dress. She looks so out of place it was great.

And I was actually sad and shocked Ros died! I figured she would have been in all of the seasons. Interesting.

AND THANK GOD SAM PULLED OUT THE OBSIDIAN BLADE!!! I was wondering where it was and if they were going to show us Sam the Slayer!!!

Edited May 6, 2013 by A Redeemed Hound

[Pure Guava]

Low Budget??? Didnt look terrible at all, it was some of the best CGI the show has had, in no way did it look like 1970s special effects. Most TV shows have far worse CGI then this

The styrofoam ice was horrible, dawg. Sorry. Actually not talking about CGI but the actual sets. Like I said.

EDIT: And oh god that just reminded me of the Osha/Meera conflict. Stupidest and most worthless scene in the entire series so far. Really starting to lose faith in D&D.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Pure Guava

[YuvalTheVal]

I can't believe some people are saying this was the worst episode yet!

I thought it was absoulutly fantastic! Great acting, Great writing. just great, enjoyed every minute. the LittleFinger speech montague... that ending shot... this is how television should be made.

Best episode yet, 10\10

[darksellsword]

I gave this episode a 6 and its not so much for the deviations from the books just the script , I thought the bonding

moment between Tyrion and Cersei was excruciatingly bad. The scene with QOT and Tywin was equally as idiotic and

repetitive.Arya and Mellisandres interaction was bizarre to say the least. Boltons bastard has been completely miss written

comes across like a cheesy scifi villain were as in the books hes just sadistic and totally indifferent to Theon

for the most part i dont see the book Ramsay choosing to exclusively spend his time torturing Theon.The

impression i had of Ramsay from the book was him sat drinking wine and having a nice time while enjoying

the idea of his men ripping Theons toes off and knocking his teeth out. The Osha Meera scene felt like

a weak scene from Merlin or some dumb show like that. Loras The Warrior who just happens to be gay being portrayed

as a modern era stereotypical gay is a huge dishonor to Grrm powerful charecter crafted novels, it seems this is the path the show writers have decided to walk down .

Edited May 6, 2013 by darksellsword

[YuvalTheVal]

Well this is the first time an episode has brought me to the forums (bank holiday - time to geek out) with a comment so go easy on me, but I thought it was the best so far.. Not much happening plot wise, but the whole team has to be given credit for an excellent job in riffing on the themes and characters GRRM provided.

Clearly many of you novel purists will think this was a (relatively) sub-par episode due to how much it differed from the books. However I thought it was truly spectacular.

The sheer amount of subtlety in every scene and the way it respected the characters and plot, while admittedly straying from the purely canon interpretation of the source material, frankly dropped my jaw.

For instance, I have watched the Brienne, Roose and Jamie scene at least 4 times now and found new delight with each viewing. minor things such as the way NCW wavers his knife like a balance scale when discussing finances, and then stills the motion when talking about the consequences of displeasing his father, or GC's reaction to his immediate refusal to accept her staying as he is released. Now that is some serious top quality acting (and scripting ofc)!

Every scene simply drips care and attention and manages to pull off some pretty major script changes while staying true to the spirit of the source material. The fact that this is averaging 8/10 while doing so, tells me that despite this GOT has writers and actors that are more than capable of elaborating on the source material, plus Alik Sakharov has to be given credit for some superb orchestration... I give this a solid 10/10

Cheers! Excatcly what I was thinking. You managed to put my thoughts into words, something I can't really do because English isn't my native language. thank you :)

[A Redeemed Hound]

One thing that was really bush league was that the Knight of Flowers says something regarding "French cuffs" or "French" something or other. Really? France is part of Westeros? That was super poor writing.

[Pure Guava]

"Fringed", homie. "Fringed".

Edited May 6, 2013 by Pure Guava

[BastardoftheNorth]

I think they nailed the cinematic aspect of the ascent of the wall. That wide shot of the sheet of ice breaking off was amazing. I also thought the quick scene between Samwell and Gilly was a minor triumph of acting and atmosphere. I've generally been very disappointed with the scenes north of the Wall, as they are usually filmed in this dull, gray light. So many of the best scenes north of the Wall in the books take place in darkness, usually with wind and blowing snow. In this instance, I think they nailed it.

The characterization in this one was just off however.The Littlefinger/Varys scene was laughably hamfisted and obvious and the Queen of Thorns homoerotic tweaking of Tywin was way out of place for a medieval story.

Looking foward to George's episode next week!

[Tywin's bastard]

BwB are NOT religious zealots, far from that. Most members do not even follow Rhollor. Book BwB did not care about Stannis or king's blood, they cared about the people. Book Beric would never sell a member of BwB to a foreigner who wants to burn him alive. They basically made the most unselfish and noble character from the books a slaver.

They would ransom Arya, their hostage, to her family. They wouldn't just sell her to the highest bidder. They took Hound's money, but they gave him his life. No other faction in Westeros gives their captured enemies a fair trial. Book BwB is noble and TV BwB is just greedy.

First of all you must go by the show. It's completely nonsensical to make an argument about something that happens in the show and not use what the show has established. It's also pure speculation what the BwB would have done if a red priest with a higher goal would have arrived at their doorstep. Information changes things.

And again, it's just stupid to call that slavery. I usually try to be nicer but I can't call it anything else. The show clearly establishes how important the one true god is to Beric and Thoros (they are true believers) so it's clearly an act of following his will as they see Melisandre as just as a legit champion of R'hllor as Thoros. In that situation you can't call it slavery since they give him with an express purpose, while a slaver only cares about the money. It's exactly what they are doing with Arya. They'll only give her up for a specific purpose (to get her back to the Starks) but they won't do it purely out of honor, they want money for it because of purely practical reasons. It's also very important that they've learned something new about Gendry. We all remember that they were going to let Arya go before they learned who she is.

And the notion that true believers of R'hllor would think that it's wrong to burn someone is a complete oxymoron.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Tywin's bastard

[Abaddon]

Gave it a solid 8. I would put it roughly on par with S3E1 and a bit better than S3E2. After the run of great episodes (3-5) we've just had it naturally feels like a letdown.

Really enjoyed the interaction with Mel and the BwB. Looking forward to seeing Gendry at Dragonstone. Loved Oleanna and Tywin of course, although I was a little confused by the quill snapping but it makes sense to me now after reading some of the previous comments. I am one of the few genuinely sorry to see Ros go (did not care for her in S1 but liked her in S2 just fine) and the way she went was brutal and shocking and totally unexpected. The scene with Sansa at the end was one of the first times I've felt empathy for her this season. Oh and Jaime&Brienne&Bolton continue to be masterful in their scenes.

Wall climb was good, not great, to me. A little too Michael Bay over-the-top Hollywood in execution and the ending seemed weirdly out of place. Not bad... just not quite what I hoped for. Can't agree at all with those that said it looks bad or cheap though, it looked spectacular.

The Riverrun stuff was fine, but I think it's suffering a bit from trying to recover to a position that will end where it does in the books. The way they got here didn't work for me as well as the book. That said I think from this point on it's going to proceed pretty similarly and I am really on pins and needles thinking about that. I agree with those who have commented that the Blackfish is being written to be too boorish. It reminds me a lot of Quorin, in fact. They really failed to translate Quorin very well and I see echos of that here, although they are doing a bit of a better job with the Blackfish than they did with Quorin.

I think overall this episode is showing some of the stretch marks of some of the threads being extended, notably Kings Landing and the Bran storyline. I can't say I mind that too much as I feel the alternative (compressing other storylines to move more briskly through the material) would have been far worse. But, it still shows.

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

First of all you must go by the show. It's completely nonsensical to make an argument about something that happens in the show and not use what the show has established. It's also pure speculation what the BwB would have done if a red priest with a higher goal would have arrived at their doorstep. Information changes things.

And again, it's just stupid to call that slavery. I usually try to be nicer but I can't call it anything else. The show clearly establishes how important the one true god is to Beric and Thoros (they are true believers) so it's clearly an act of following his will as they see Melisandre as just as a legit champion of R'hllor as Thoros. In that situation you can't call it slavery since they give him with an express purpose, while a slaver only cares about the money. It's exactly what they are doing with Arya. They'll only give her up for a specific purpose (to get her back to the Starks) but they won't do it purely out of honor, they want money for it because of purely practical reasons. It's also very important that they've learned something new about Gendry. We all remember that they were going to let Arya go before they learned who she is.

And the notion that true believers of R'hllor would think that it's wrong to burn someone is a complete oxymoron.

Well if we completely ignore the books then it makes sense, yes. Thing is, Beric was one of my favorite characters in the books so the scene where Gendry was taken away like a prisoner really hurt me. BwB follows R'hllor because of Thoros' powers, not because they agree with human sacrifices. Book Beric is a perfect example of a man who would sacrifice himself to save another. He would never allow a member of BwB to burned in order to makes Stannis a king. The whole point of BwB is that they are not on the side of any king, but on the side of smallfolk. Or at least they were uner Beric, under UnCat it's hard to say on whose side they are on.

Slavery may not be the correct expression but they sold a man so that Mel may use him as she pleases. That is pretty damn close to slavery.

Again, I can see no reason why BwB would sell their member to Stannis. I do not know what Mel told them, but if she told them that Stannis is AAR and that the battle for dawn is coming, wouldn't a company of religious zealots join his cause? And if she did not tell them that, then why did they let him go?

[mickey117]

Gave it an 8, although it's the least good episode of this season; nothing particularly wrong but also nothing very exciting bar Theon's scene.