[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Hound's She-wolf]

true blood- perfect example of a show where the director took way too many liberties with the source material, and turned it into not just a different animal, but a crappy, different animal. not that charlaine harris is a phenomenal writer or anything, but the books were entertaining enough, but the show got absurd after the first two seasons. I feel, sadly, like thats the direction GoT is heading. next episode = stannis visits the faery night club.

But no matter how crappy the recent True Blood shows have been- they still have Alcide, Eric *sigh* and Russell. And I would love to see Stannis and Pam square off. In a faery night club. Or Mel vs Pam.

TBH, if D&D are going to go the way of True Blood, I would rather they just go big and make some major changes soon instead of just doing these little, annoying changes that drive me nuts and make no sense, that way i could convince myself that the show doesn't represent what may go on in the books in the future.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

The Blackfish always seemed arrogant and badass to me but never a jerk and certainly never to his own faimly.....

They've ruined the character in the tv series. His attitude toward Edmure was an absolute joke this last episode. He never once acted that way in the book towards a family member. The most he could do was express disappointment like he did with Lysa and Edmure.

What did you guys think of the Kingsguardr "threat" from Tywin to the Queen of Thorns? That whole scene was just so stupid IMO. Even though I love both actors the whole premise was just dumb. In the books the Kingsguard is the best appointment a knight can earn and lots of people want to there....yet for some reason we're supposed to believe that Loras would rather wed Cersei? Or that the Queen of Thorns would rather Loras marry Cersei rather than stay in Kings Landing and protect Margaery?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The Blackfish always seemed arrogant and badass to me but never a jerk and certainly never to his own faimly.....

They've ruined the character in the tv series. His attitude toward Edmure was an absolute joke this last episode. He never once acted that way in the book towards a family member. The most he could do was express disappointment like he did with Lysa and Edmure.

What did you guys think of the Kingsguardr "threat" from Tywin to the Queen of Thorns? That whole scene was just so stupid IMO. Even though I love both actors the whole premise was just dumb. In the books the Kingsguard is the best appointment a knight can earn and lots of people want to there....yet for some reason we're supposed to believe that Loras would rather wed Cersei? Or that the Queen of Thorns would rather Loras marry Cersei rather than stay in Kings Landing and protect Margaery?

Loras the heir to Highgarden and the only Tyrell on the show. So joining the KG would be terrible. In the books Garlan is heir and so the Tyrell like isn't dependent entirely on Loras. Which admittedly was a bad change.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Loras the heir to Highgarden and the only Tyrell on the show. So joining the KG would be terrible. In the books Garlan is heir and so the Tyrell like isn't dependent entirely on Loras. Which admittedly was a bad change.

The show was implying with that scene that Loras would have no choice....that the Tyrells would have no choice if Tywin/Joffrey named him to the Kingsguard. IIRC in the novels, a person can refuse to be a member of the Kingsguard.

Either way I just found it pretty stupid as far as logic and threats go.

[ambi76]

The more I think about it the more puzzled I get because I can barely think of a way that house Tyrell (at least the name) is not definitely going extinct now as of show canon (could happen in the books too sure, but a bit early to spoil that in season 3/4 and it's pretty much the exact opposite of Growing Strong).

Only solutions I see:

Loras never joins the kingsguard. (?)

They invent a younger brother for Mace later, except then Marg needs to stay childless forever which is totally incompatible with wanting to be "the queen". (???)

[SerMixalot]

I somewhat agree seeing how Myrcella and Tommen had the same terrible "father" and mother but they are both sweat and innocent children.

I always thought the implication is that Cersei took a far more proactive approach with Joffrey (as the crowned prince) turning him into the monster he became.

[The Anti-Targ]

So a nitpick :)

Thoros: "I drank too much rum" There is no such thing in the books, and there wasn't in Europe in the Middle Ages.

What's that got to do with anything?

Sorry not supposed to criticise nitpicks in this thread, but you really can't nitpick about what was and wasn't a thing in Medieval Europe; there wasn't a giant magic manmade wall of ice in Medieval Europe either.

My only head shaking moment was Ygritte outing Jon as still being a Crow. The rest was, meh OK just make it work for the show.

Theon torture is being overplayed and is a time waster. But that's not really a "it wasn't in the book" nitpick. I was happy to see a bit of Theon torture because in TV land Theon needs a bit of screen time. But he's got way more than he needs already, and he's getting more next week.

[The Anti-Targ]

It's not like the Tyrells are expecting any progeny out of Loras any way. Which of course makes the KG threat pretty empty. Unless Olenna, despite her apparently enlightened views, still thinks Loras is merely going through a "phase". Or she thinks that while Loras is gay he'd nevertheless do what's right and marry and have children. Actually being gay has distinct advantages for marriages of convenience, and there's no chance of Loras doing something stupid like marrying a no-name field nurse from Volantis because of lurv.

[Mammothsbane]

The more I think about it the more puzzled I get because I can barely think of a way that house Tyrell (at least the name) is not definitely going extinct now as of show canon (could happen in the books too sure, but a bit early to spoil that in season 3/4 and it's pretty much the exact opposite of Growing Strong).

Only solutions I see:

Loras never joins the kingsguard. (?)

They invent a younger brother for Mace later, except then Marg needs to stay childless forever which is totally incompatible with wanting to be "the queen". (???)

Agreed. They seem to have painted themselves into a corner with Loras being the only son and heir of House Tyrell

[The Bear]

I'm getting a bit tired of the constant flanderisation of characters.

In the novels, Blackfish is a stern badass, therefore in the series he's a grumpy bastard who threatens his own kids

In the novels, Edmure isn't as competent as those around him, therefore in the series he's a bumbling moron

In the novels, Loras happens to be a gay man, therefore in the series he is a gay stereotype.

I was slightly annoyed by the 'gay men jump into bed right away' trope with Loras and Oliver last week, but this week was full of further gay stereotypes that made me realise that yes, they're going to go there. The wedding, knowing about dresses and fabric, all that sort of thing.

GRRM might bury his gays (much like he buries his heteros) but at least his gay characters are subtle and not stereotypical.

[teemo]

The conversation between Tywin and Olenna was awful. Olenna snapping the quill was too much, her talking of "sword swallowing" and hinting that Tywin may have done so in the past felt like a really modern conversation and totally inappropriate. Not a good scene at all.

[The Bear]

The conversation between Tywin and Olenna was awful. Olenna snapping the quill was too much, her talking of "sword swallowing" and hinting that Tywin may have done so in the past felt like a really modern conversation and totally inappropriate. Not a good scene at all.

I totally agree with you. The quill snapping seemed to exist to give them trailer footage, and her open admission of Loras's homosexuality seemed out of character. I could see her defending him to Tywin (because she seems protective of her family and of course isn't afraid to speak up) by saying what she did about fooling around as a young man surrounded by boys, but not the sword swallowing and buggery. Then again, they reduced Loras to a walking Will & Grace stereotype so why shouldn't they give her the same treatment? Ugh.

[Pinkie Baelish]

If the show resorts to Loras being Joffrey and Margaery's wedding planner, I'm out.

[ckongo]

Saying it's unrecognizable from the books is horribly dramatic hyperbole that shows you have a difficult time controlling your emotions.

In reality some characters are worse than they are in the books, some characters are better, several minor events have changed, but the major storyline is basically the same.

It's recognizable, but not very similar. Season 1 felt like the books on TV, season 2 felt only loosely based, and season 3 is almost fanfiction. I guess GRRM is ok with it as long as he's paid.

They may be leading to the same conclusions on the show as the books, but D+D have taken the liberty of making up completely different reasons to get there. I wonder if the anti-purists are still using the budget excuse anymore?

[ckongo]

The Blackfish always seemed arrogant and badass to me but never a jerk and certainly never to his own faimly.....

They've ruined the character in the tv series. His attitude toward Edmure was an absolute joke this last episode. He never once acted that way in the book towards a family member. The most he could do was express disappointment like he did with Lysa and Edmure.

What did you guys think of the Kingsguardr "threat" from Tywin to the Queen of Thorns? That whole scene was just so stupid IMO. Even though I love both actors the whole premise was just dumb. In the books the Kingsguard is the best appointment a knight can earn and lots of people want to there....yet for some reason we're supposed to believe that Loras would rather wed Cersei? Or that the Queen of Thorns would rather Loras marry Cersei rather than stay in Kings Landing and protect Margaery?

Agreed. To me the political maneuverings GRRM makes in these books are very delicate, and quite frankly I don't think D+D are capable of truly understanding Westeros' politics the way the creator does. Therefore, they should not be playing at "God of Westeros" the way they are (such as the scene you mentioned). Just put the damn books onto the screen and stop tinkering with them because you two are on an ego-trip!

[teemo]

It's recognizable, but not very similar. Season 1 felt like the books on TV, season 2 felt only loosely based, and season 3 is almost fanfiction. I guess GRRM is ok with it as long as he's paid.

They may be leading to the same conclusions on the show as the books, but D+D have taken the liberty of making up completely different reasons to get there. I wonder if the anti-purists are still using the budget excuse anymore?

I don't think its hyperbole to say it's almost unrecognizable, or at least heading in that direction. If you just take a look at Ran's book-to-screen analysis for episodes, each episode has more and more made-up scenes as time goes by. It's at the point where the vast majority of scenes are invented or heavily modified/"based loosely on." In this episode there are four scenes based on the books (Sam, Jon, Cat, and Brienne), and even most of those are big deviations, such as the cliche romance scene on top of the Wall instead of talking about the Horn and the Blackfish being a thug.

Then there are nine totally invented scenes - Ygritte being cool with Jon being a crow still, the whitewashing of Tyrion as he breaks the news to Sansa (which we cheaply don't even get to see), Meera and Osha fighting, Theon being flayed and not being able to guess his captor's identity, Olenna talking about swallowing swords and snapping quills in front of Tywin, the cliche Loras scene with Sansa, Cersei and Tyrion acting like BFF and more Cersei whitewashing, and shocker - Varys and Littlefinger talking a lot about their plans and a dead Ros.

I wouldn't say it's totally unrecognizable, obviously, but it's on its way.

[ckongo]

I don't think its hyperbole to say it's almost unrecognizable, or at least heading in that direction. If you just take a look at Ran's book-to-screen analysis for episodes, each episode has more and more made-up scenes as time goes by. It's at the point where the vast majority of scenes are invented or heavily modified/"based loosely on." In this episode there are four scenes based on the books (Sam, Jon, Cat, and Brienne), and even most of those are big deviations, such as the cliche romance scene on top of the Wall instead of talking about the Horn and the Blackfish being a thug.

Then there are nine totally invented scenes - Ygritte being cool with Jon being a crow still, the whitewashing of Tyrion as he breaks the news to Sansa (which we cheaply don't even get to see), Meera and Osha fighting, Theon being flayed and not being able to guess his captor's identity, Olenna talking about swallowing swords and snapping quills in front of Tywin, the cliche Loras scene with Sansa, Cersei and Tyrion acting like BFF and more Cersei whitewashing, and shocker - Varys and Littlefinger talking a lot about their plans and a dead Ros.

I wouldn't say it's totally unrecognizable, obviously, but it's on its way.

You are so right about how few scenes were in the books. I was keeping count as well, and there weren't many. You got the full count which really puts it into perspective. Even though there were four scenes that exist in the books in some form, they are almost not fair to count at this point. So yeah, I agree with you.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Nitpick!: When Jaime is cutting the meat in the close-up camera, he is using the fork. When the camera changes he is using a knife!

[The Bear]

Nitpick!: When Jaime is cutting the meat in the close-up camera, he is using the fork. When the camera changes he is using a knife!

I noticed that too but assumed he'd just changed the untensil since the fork wasn't working out. I think it was more likely a continuity error now that you mention it.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

The best thing about this episode was, considering it's GRRM's episode next week, next week is going to be all the more epic relative to this week's let down.