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[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?


teemo

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Until episode 306, I too have been pretty disappointed in how Jon Snow's storyline has played out. None of the Wildlings have any real personality other than Ygritte.We've been told that Tormund likes Jon, but he hasn't shown it yet. Same with Mance. It has felt very abridged; The Climb was the first episode it didn't. Hope it continues to regain focus.

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Don't feed the trolls...

And I'm still pretty confident that we'll see Sam the Slayer....maybe?

It's an adaptation of the books, its the same way when they do an adaptation of The Great Gatsby they may eliminate minor characters and scenes and change things around a bit but at the end Gatsby will still be dead and Daisy will go back to her husband.

Noooooo, I haven't read the book since I was little and am reading it again now (forgot) and I'm half through lol.

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Really? Hmm.

Eddard Stark is dead, check.

Winterfell is burned, check.

Theon is held prisoner by Ramsey Bolton, check.

Stannis lost the battle of Blackwater, check.

Sansa is going to marry Tyrion, check.

Jamie lost his hand, check.

Robb is king in the north, check.

The Lannisters and Tyrells are allied, check.

Renly is dead, check.

Vicerys got a golden crown, check.

Dany has a slave army, check.

The Old Bear was killed in a mutiny, check.

Cersei's children are the product of incest, check.

LF is going to marry Lysa, check.

Seems sort of like a faithful adaptation to me.

Robb is an intelligent king uncheck

Cat is a three dimensional character uncheck

Brienne is more than a little naive and not yet a brutal killer uncheck

Jon Snow is an interesting character uncheck

Mance Rayder has personality uncheck

Stannis is not p'whipped uncheck

Loras is not Richard Simmons in armor uncheck

Tyrion is a gray character uncheck

Sansa has more than 2 brain cells uncheck

Luwin explained who burned winterfell uncheck

Sam is a Slayer uncheck

Tormund had some personality uncheck

The Tyrells were not in danger of going extinct uncheck

Arya was well on her way to being a bad ass assasin uncheck

Littlefinger was discreet uncheck

Shae was a money grubbing ho' uncheck

Fat Sam couldnt out run Walkers and Wights uncheck

Quorin Halfhand was a badass uncheck

the Wildings had an actual reason to trust Jon Snow uncheck

Noone had the balls to steal Dany's dragons uncheck

A magician able to make multiple copies of himself doesnt bend over to look at 3 dragons uncheck

Hot nurses dont wander around Westeros without getting Raped and Pillaged uncheck

A northern Ho' doesnt become Littlefingers Hand of the Pimp Uncheck

Brienne and Jamie arent expected to walk all the way to KL uncheck

No repetitive and tiresome Theon torture scenes uncheck

Cersei and Tyrion dont go from loving to hating each other on a chapter by chapter basis uncheck

well you get the idea

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

We should rename the thread "What the actual Fuck :bang: ?" and dispense with semantics and vague word play of "nitpick." Better yet, leave the "nitpicking" thread, and add the "What the actual Fuck" thread...two great tastes in one forum.

I'm a problem solver. :cheers:

You are most welcome.

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Robb is an intelligent king uncheck

Cat is a three dimensional character uncheck

Brienne is more than a little naive and not yet a brutal killer uncheck

Jon Snow is an interesting character uncheck

Mance Rayder has personality uncheck

Stannis is not p'whipped uncheck

Loras is not Richard Simmons in armor uncheck

Tyrion is a gray character uncheck

Sansa has more than 2 brain cells uncheck

Luwin explained who burned winterfell uncheck

Sam is a Slayer uncheck

Tormund had some personality uncheck

The Tyrells were not in danger of going extinct uncheck

Arya was well on her way to being a bad ass assasin uncheck

Littlefinger was discreet uncheck

Shae was a money grubbing ho' uncheck

Fat Sam couldnt out run Walkers and Wights uncheck

Quorin Halfhand was a badass uncheck

the Wildings had an actual reason to trust Jon Snow uncheck

Noone had the balls to steal Dany's dragons uncheck

A magician able to make multiple copies of himself doesnt bend over to look at 3 dragons uncheck

Hot nurses dont wander around Westeros without getting Raped and Pillaged uncheck

A northern Ho' doesnt become Littlefingers Hand of the Pimp Uncheck

Brienne and Jamie arent expected to walk all the way to KL uncheck

No repetitive and tiresome Theon torture scenes uncheck

Cersei and Tyrion dont go from loving to hating each other on a chapter by chapter basis uncheck

well you get the idea

I'll play Devil's Advocate and actually answer explain what you bring up (for laughs).

Robb trying to fool the Lannisters by pretending to be a stupid frat-boy. Tywin's ROFL over Robb's being a stupid frat-boy with delusions of wolfhood. (where's the wolf, btw?)

Edmure's trying to cut down the Riverrun electric bill, so Big Sis is filling in for a lamp.

Naive? No knight or even squire is naive in Westeros (hello, Podrick, the toast of the KL whores); Brienne's amping up the brutality to fit in with the guys.

Jon Snow is interesting? When Sam's there to beef up his confidence, maybe. Even Jon's wolf has gone AWOL on him (no doubt hanging out with Greywind while they munch on deer and complain about clueless Starklings). Without little Arya to fawn on him or wights to fight, Jon is just another sulky boy who doesn't know how to deal with perky redhaired she-Wildlings.

Hah-hah; that Mance, always such a prankster. He's just pretending to be a boring ol' fart so that the next time he goes south to play bard at a noble's wedding (and get free food), no one will finger him as Mance Rayder. He really knows that Jon is a double agent; but is too soft-hearted to kill the kid.

Stannis is in a funk because Melisandre murdered his therapist and Oldtown hasn't sent him another one...

Loras wouldn't dare put on silk gymwear and lead a Red Keep aerobics class while Granny's around, but wait 'til she goes back to Highgarden; because Loras is so much cuter than Richard Simmons and teach everyone to grow stronger!

Actually, Tyrion is a red and gold character. As for grey, black or white; well, Tyrion's the true hero of ASoIaF, the future Azor Azhai/Promised Prince and King of Westeros; the showrunners are just restoring him to the greatness he was meant to have.

Sansa "I can't remember my sister attacking my boyfriend and which wolf did what" Stark has more than 2 brain cells? Sansa, who snitched her daddy's plans so she could stay with her psycho boyfriend. Well, alright, Sansa has 3 whole brain cells. Clearly in the same family as supersmart mystical Bran and fan-darling Arya only by courtesy. Obviously wants to invite Mummy and Big Brother to her wedding so she can sob all the harder when she learns about the other wedding, the Red one.

Dear old Maester Luwin couldn't tell the kids who burned Winterfell because he only had a few more moments of life left and it was more important that he remind Rickon to wash his ears or whatnot than to mention which enemies destroyed the Stark stronghold.

Sam's not Buffy.

Tormund mislaid his personality in the same place as Mance lost his. Jeez; these Wildling men just can't be trusted out of the house on their own; they just lose themselves.

Wellllll, both Tywin and Olenna are pretty old (over 50), so obviously dementia is setting in and they forgot that Lord Tyrell has two other sons at home.

Arya's loaned most of her brain cells to Sansa (who lost them), so she thinks that jumping up and down in an effort to terrorize the Hound is a demonstration of assassin potential. (Hound would have laughed, but he was trying to avoid a flaming sword at the time)

Littlefinger's really not a subtle, dangerous embezzler, power-broker and chaos-bringer; he's actually a front; Dontos is the brains of the operation. LF killed him in the book because he wanted their fortune for himself, as well as Sansa Stark.

Shae a money-grubbing ho? No, she's truly a working girl with a heart of gold, not a heart for gold. No prostitutes are ever greedy or untrustworthy.

Sam's been working out! He's actually an Olympic qualifying runner.

Quorin was an old meanie who bullied sweet Jon Snow.

Of course the Wildlings had every reason to trust Jon Snow - those pretty black curls, nice clean teeth, soft brown eyes; wouldn't you trust such a nice boy?

The Warlocks of Quarth actually demonstrated initiative, and a determination to buck the status quo of hereditary familial prestige by stealing dragons from a Targaryen. Of course, the evil dragon-witch went postal on the saintly warlocks and reclaimed her dangerous weapons of mass destruction.

Pyat Pree had studied dragons for years and was impatient to examine them; and thought it would be safest to do that when the dragons' 'mother' was present; he was actually trying to be humane, poor guy.

Obviously Talisa is a secret wizard and can shoot lightning from her fingertips to protect herself as she wanders the battlefields of Westeros; and wanted to spare Robb's fragile ego by telling him of her wondrous powers.

Littlefinger was being a progressive and liberal employer, choosing an assistant from among the ranks of his prostitutes rather than getting a trained secretary; and ungrateful Ros betrayed his kindness by betraying his secrets to Varys and Shae.

Jaime needed to walk because he was out of shape after months of imprisonment; Brienne kindly consented to a longer trip.

As for Theon's repetitive torture scenes; well, Ramsey's still learning to be a skilled torturer; he needs the practice (and wants to impress his father).

We all know how much Cersei and Jaime love their family. When they're not loving their family, they're kissing their cousins (Cersei/Lancel) or killing them (Jaime/"Alton"). And since Jaime loves Tyrion, Cersei probably does too. When she's not hating him. She and Tyrion alternate feelings with the months of the year.

(actually, Sansa is one of my favorite characters in the book; and I loved your list; was just trying to emphasize what you said)

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Where the FUCK are Val and mini-Mance? That is going to be an extremely large part of the story. That isn't even just a little bit of flavor or characterization that is lost - it is going to alter some major plot lines down the road.

They're hanging out with Jeyne Poole in the Vault of Lost ASoIaF Characters.

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I'll play Devil's Advocate and actually answer explain what you bring up (for laughs).

Robb trying to fool the Lannisters by pretending to be a stupid frat-boy. Tywin's ROFL over Robb's being a stupid frat-boy with delusions of wolfhood. (where's the wolf, btw?)

Edmure's trying to cut down the Riverrun electric bill, so Big Sis is filling in for a lamp.

Naive? No knight or even squire is naive in Westeros (hello, Podrick, the toast of the KL whores); Brienne's amping up the brutality to fit in with the guys.

Jon Snow is interesting? When Sam's there to beef up his confidence, maybe. Even Jon's wolf has gone AWOL on him (no doubt hanging out with Greywind while they munch on deer and complain about clueless Starklings). Without little Arya to fawn on him or wights to fight, Jon is just another sulky boy who doesn't know how to deal with perky redhaired she-Wildlings.

Hah-hah; that Mance, always such a prankster. He's just pretending to be a boring ol' fart so that the next time he goes south to play bard at a noble's wedding (and get free food), no one will finger him as Mance Rayder. He really knows that Jon is a double agent; but is too soft-hearted to kill the kid.

Stannis is in a funk because Melisandre murdered his therapist and Oldtown hasn't sent him another one...

Loras wouldn't dare put on silk gymwear and lead a Red Keep aerobics class while Granny's around, but wait 'til she goes back to Highgarden; because Loras is so much cuter than Richard Simmons and teach everyone to grow stronger!

Actually, Tyrion is a red and gold character. As for grey, black or white; well, Tyrion's the true hero of ASoIaF, the future Azor Azhai/Promised Prince and King of Westeros; the showrunners are just restoring him to the greatness he was meant to have.

Sansa "I can't remember my sister attacking my boyfriend and which wolf did what" Stark has more than 2 brain cells? Sansa, who snitched her daddy's plans so she could stay with her psycho boyfriend. Well, alright, Sansa has 3 whole brain cells. Clearly in the same family as supersmart mystical Bran and fan-darling Arya only by courtesy. Obviously wants to invite Mummy and Big Brother to her wedding so she can sob all the harder when she learns about the other wedding, the Red one.

Dear old Maester Luwin couldn't tell the kids who burned Winterfell because he only had a few more moments of life left and it was more important that he remind Rickon to wash his ears or whatnot than to mention which enemies destroyed the Stark stronghold.

Sam's not Buffy.

Tormund mislaid his personality in the same place as Mance lost his. Jeez; these Wildling men just can't be trusted out of the house on their own; they just lose themselves.

Wellllll, both Tywin and Olenna are pretty old (over 50), so obviously dementia is setting in and they forgot that Lord Tyrell has two other sons at home.

Arya's loaned most of her brain cells to Sansa (who lost them), so she thinks that jumping up and down in an effort to terrorize the Hound is a demonstration of assassin potential. (Hound would have laughed, but he was trying to avoid a flaming sword at the time)

Littlefinger's really not a subtle, dangerous embezzler, power-broker and chaos-bringer; he's actually a front; Dontos is the brains of the operation. LF killed him in the book because he wanted their fortune for himself, as well as Sansa Stark.

Shae a money-grubbing ho? No, she's truly a working girl with a heart of gold, not a heart for gold. No prostitutes are ever greedy or untrustworthy.

Sam's been working out! He's actually an Olympic qualifying runner.

Quorin was an old meanie who bullied sweet Jon Snow.

Of course the Wildlings had every reason to trust Jon Snow - those pretty black curls, nice clean teeth, soft brown eyes; wouldn't you trust such a nice boy?

The Warlocks of Quarth actually demonstrated initiative, and a determination to buck the status quo of hereditary familial prestige by stealing dragons from a Targaryen. Of course, the evil dragon-witch went postal on the saintly warlocks and reclaimed her dangerous weapons of mass destruction.

Pyat Pree had studied dragons for years and was impatient to examine them; and thought it would be safest to do that when the dragons' 'mother' was present; he was actually trying to be humane, poor guy.

Obviously Talisa is a secret wizard and can shoot lightning from her fingertips to protect herself as she wanders the battlefields of Westeros; and wanted to spare Robb's fragile ego by telling him of her wondrous powers.

Littlefinger was being a progressive and liberal employer, choosing an assistant from among the ranks of his prostitutes rather than getting a trained secretary; and ungrateful Ros betrayed his kindness by betraying his secrets to Varys and Shae.

Jaime needed to walk because he was out of shape after months of imprisonment; Brienne kindly consented to a longer trip.

As for Theon's repetitive torture scenes; well, Ramsey's still learning to be a skilled torturer; he needs the practice (and wants to impress his father).

We all know how much Cersei and Jaime love their family. When they're not loving their family, they're kissing their cousins (Cersei/Lancel) or killing them (Jaime/"Alton"). And since Jaime loves Tyrion, Cersei probably does too. When she's not hating him. She and Tyrion alternate feelings with the months of the year.

(actually, Sansa is one of my favorite characters in the book; and I loved your list; was just trying to emphasize what you said)

Thanks I needed that :o)

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18 pages of bitching... poor guys

well there are only 349 posts and 61632 members so that really is only 0.005662 posts per poster so that really aint all that much bitching the scheme of things.

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well there are only 349 posts and 61632 members so that really is only 0.005662 posts per poster so that really aint all that much bitching the scheme of things.

:lol:

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Where the FUCK are Val and mini-Mance? That is going to be an extremely large part of the story. That isn't even just a little bit of flavor or characterization that is lost - it is going to alter some major plot lines down the road.

Lost in the budget.

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I don't think the small number of Wildlings to make it to the top of the wall is a big deal.

In the books, those who make it to the top let down rope ladders, then the rest of the raiding party comes over.

They aren't going to be attacking Castle Black with four people.

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Maybe if they didn't feel so compelled to write nudity clauses, they could shift a little of their boob money to show some concern over the actual story. Not all the boob money. Maybe 10%.

Surely 10% of the boob budget would get us at least a Mini-Mance and a Val, you would think. Probably the whole RW too...

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Who’s been insulting and offending Joffrey? Don’t worry my dear Joff. I’ve come in your defense!!

Joffrey tried to have Bran killed, killed Ned. And you think he wouldn't kill a prostitute?

Who cares? He is who is and that's all that matters. Some people are just born evil.

And it's not like Joffrey had it that rough growing up. He was born into royalty FFS. There are people that go through waaay worse and don't turn into sadistic monsters.

Well, I dont think it was Cersei's influence that made him cut those kittens out of that cat. He's pretty much evil by nature, as well as by nurture.

A lot of people had neglectful fathers. That alone won't turn you into the evil that Joffrey has become.

No, Joffrey is a born monster.

Tommen had the same father...

Dude the cat gutting is a perfect example of pure psycho behavior. Nothing could have been done to save Joffrey.

Actually no, he cut the cat open when someone told him there were kittens inside and he wanted to see them. When he found them, he showed them to his father. The emphasis in the story was not on his doing it "for" his father but because his mind thought it would be interesting.

The Bran incident is not too different. He overhears his father say it would be a mercy for Bran to die, and again, Joffrey's brain says, "Yeah, that's a good idea." The implication is that Joffrey is psychotic and doesn't need much to undertake gruesome actions. Spending more time with his father could only lead to trouble, since Robert is no angel to begin with.

I believe Joffrey is not the “monster” everybody claims he is for no reason. Joff was probably born a little bit mentally-ill because of the incest. However, not everybody that has a mental illness becomes a “monster”. Joffrey’s upbringing definitely had a big influence, and played a big role.

We see that Joffrey sees Robert as a father figure, as a King, as an example to follow. He says to Tywin that his father was the hero of the war, and that Tywin was a coward. The problem is that Robert was a terrible King, father and husband, a bad influence, and never paid attention to Joff. Joffrey was constantly seeking Robert’s attention and approval, and learned many bad “habits” from Robert.

When Joff was a little kid, he killed the cat. He killed her because she was pregnant and Joff wanted to see the little kittens. Kids don’t measure their strength and don’t understand death (the little brother of a friend had a little chicken; he gave it a bath, and then wrung it. You can imagine what happened). Joff didn’t know the cat was going to die. He just wanted to take the little kittens out to see them. Then he takes the cat to Robert. He didn’t do it for Bob. But he wanted to show Bob what he had done. In Joff’s eyes it was an achievement: he got the kittens out! Instead of explaining things to Joff, what does Robert do? He beats Joff bloody. This is probably not the only time that Robert ever hit Joff.

Cersei is also a terrible mother; she on the other hand, is always reassuring and spoiling Joff. She tells him everything he does is right. She wants him to be fierce, wild, reckless, and uncontrollable. She thinks that is the way a King should be. In AFfC we see that Cersei doesn’t like that Tommen is very easy to “cow”.

What happens here is that Joff grows up believing everything he does is right, and reacting with violence. He thinks that if someone disagrees with him, then he has to hurt them physically to make them understand. An example would be the hitting of Sansa, and the peasants he shot with his crossbow. The peasants where asking for bread and yelling IIRC. He wanted them to shut up, so he reacted with violence to make it happen: he shot them.

The violence would be something he picked up from Robert, but is not the only thing. Many people forget that when the Nymeria incident happened, Joff was drunk. He was also heavily drinking in his wedding. During Sansa’s wedding with Tyrion, Joffrey tells her that he can have sex with her if he wants. Joffrey sent the man with the dagger to kill Bran after hearing Bob saying that it would be a mercy to kill him. Joff wanted to impress Robert. Joff (consciously or unconsciously), always seeking for approval, had been trying to fulfill Robert’s “standards”: violence, drinking, whoring, and Bran.

In fact, if you really think about it, Joff doesn’t act without being provoked. He always has a reason to do what he does. He attacked Mycah because he was “rescuing” Arya; Sansa and the peasants for defying him; he ridiculed Tyrion because Tyrion did the same to him before. He orders Ned’s execution because like he said, he is not going let traitors live during his reign, and was probably under the influence of Petyr.

It’s not like if Joff wakes up one day and says to himself: “mmm, I haven’t killed anybody with my new crossbow. I need to kill someone. I’ll summon the Pimp and tell him to bring me one of his whores to try this beauty.”

If you’re wondering then why Tommen and Myrcella don’t act the same way, well there’s a difference sinse Joff is the crown prince. He grew up knowing that some day he will become King. He looks at Robert to see how he is supposed to act. Cersei protects him more, and molds him to act the way she thinks a King should be. Also, Joff grew up with the Hound, another violent and terrible figure and example to follow.

So I don’t think Joff is a “monster” or a “little piece of shit”. He is just a kid who had a terrible upbringing and maybe a mental illness. :( I didn’t like that he killed Ros. I didn’t like Ros, but I had grown kind of fond of her in this season. She didn’t deserve to die like that. That was even beyond Joff. That was out of character for Joff. Well I guess is perfectly in character with show Joff, but not with the book Joff I know and love. :crying:

PS: This is my 300 post and I dedicate in the memory of Joffrey. :cheers: Joff who died in the year 300 AL :bawl: :bawl: :crying: :crying:

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I agree with everything you said, esp about Ramsay! I nitpicked about this over on the Roose Bolton board. Everyone loves Ramsay on the show so I'm totally in the minority when I say I don't. It's like a weird little school boy vice or something. His demeanor, everything about him I cannot take seriously.

The seizing Jojen thing was a major wtf moment.

I totally tilted my head at the screen when Sansa asked that question.

I think you're the first person ever to say "my Joff" lol. But this is the point I was trying to make in my previous posts... he's totally sick and sadistic and evil but I don't think he would have the guts to kill someone HIMSELF.

Thank you for reminding me of the Horn. Totally forgot about that!

The Blackfish is cool and all but it irritates me how mean he is to Edmure.

Theon is basically the emblem for House Bolton, by now I hope the unsullied watchers have guessed where he is by now. Either way, this whole Where is Theon/Who is that guy thing is dragging on way too long.

True.. I always wonder about how the villains became who they are. No doubt it my mind that TV Joff is way more evil than book Joff... just like that scene they added in s2 with him forcing the prostitutes to beat each other (well damn, if i was Ros, I would have left kings landing then!). I remember in one of the books they talk about a time where he cuts open a live, pregnant cat and brought it to his father (Robert, lol, not the real one!) looking to seek approval.. I don't know why he thought this would seek Robert's approval, but Robert pretty much punches him in the face or something. I'm always fascinated by the villains and want to know their backstory.

But the "my Joff" comment was just funny to me, because I'd never heard it before. We all have our favorite villain or whatever but I have never heard anyone say that they like Joff! I'm not saying anything negative about liking Joff, I'm simply just acknowledging that I'd never heard it before! :)

Hahaha. Really? Am I the first one? Don't worry, no offense taken ;) I've always found villians more fascinating than heroes. I think they are misunderstood. I literally shed some tears when Viserys, Joffrey, and Tywin died :crying:

Re: Ramsay's voice. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think we are the only two that don't like it. I think the actor is great, and a love his psycho faces. The voice Ramsay was using when he was "helping" Theon was perfect, I don't know why he changed it. Ramsay sounds like a kindergarden kid with that voice. I just... I just cannot take him seriously. Ramsay just sounds so pathetic.

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Robb is an intelligent king uncheck

Cat is a three dimensional character uncheck

Brienne is more than a little naive and not yet a brutal killer uncheck

Jon Snow is an interesting character uncheck

Mance Rayder has personality uncheck

Stannis is not p'whipped uncheck

Loras is not Richard Simmons in armor uncheck

Tyrion is a gray character uncheck

Sansa has more than 2 brain cells uncheck

Luwin explained who burned winterfell uncheck

Sam is a Slayer uncheck

Tormund had some personality uncheck

The Tyrells were not in danger of going extinct uncheck

Arya was well on her way to being a bad ass assasin uncheck

Littlefinger was discreet uncheck

Shae was a money grubbing ho' uncheck

Fat Sam couldnt out run Walkers and Wights uncheck

Quorin Halfhand was a badass uncheck

the Wildings had an actual reason to trust Jon Snow uncheck

Noone had the balls to steal Dany's dragons uncheck

A magician able to make multiple copies of himself doesnt bend over to look at 3 dragons uncheck

Hot nurses dont wander around Westeros without getting Raped and Pillaged uncheck

A northern Ho' doesnt become Littlefingers Hand of the Pimp Uncheck

Brienne and Jamie arent expected to walk all the way to KL uncheck

No repetitive and tiresome Theon torture scenes uncheck

Cersei and Tyrion dont go from loving to hating each other on a chapter by chapter basis uncheck

well you get the idea

This site used to have a "Like" feature. Where'd that go?

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Where the FUCK are Val and mini-Mance? That is going to be an extremely large part of the story. That isn't even just a little bit of flavor or characterization that is lost - it is going to alter some major plot lines down the road.

How in the hell are those two important??? Those two are some of the easiest characters to cut, because they just arent important. They can easily replace whatever impact they've had on the books so far.

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