[BOOK SPOILERS] Gendry, Melisandre, Arya, etc.

[Zar Lannister]

Something really intrigued me: Mel's conversation with Arya. Mainly the "We will meet again"

I feel there are implications on this line regarding the unreleased book 6 and Arya's future.

That is the exact thing I thought. I had similar feelings about Gendry's wrath with the brotherhood.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I think the most unintentionally bad part of this, is that it sort of gives away Jon Snow's resurrection.. That is the biggest giveaway from this scene.

We're never told that Melisandre knows how to revive people from the dead, but now we are given a massive spoiler that she indeed is probably going to use the exact same 'magic' Thoros uses on Beric to bring back Jon Snow. Potentially creating a large plothole from the book and the show in how they handle Jon Snow's death.

I thought the whole thing was a ridiculous mess.

Plot hole? Huh?

Those dots only connect themselves because you want them to connect.

We're given the explanation about wargs and their second lives, then we're shown the sacrifice infront of a heart tree and the show has made it absolutely clear that Lady's death paid for Bran's life. Why is Bran not a better candidate to resurrect Jon Snow? Melisandre also doesn't seem to believe that a man can be resurrected six times even with the proof right infront of her.

[Kasrith]

Since way back in the show - at least as early as Jaqen's intro and the whole serving the Red God bit - R'hllor seems to be connected with Faceless Men and Valar Morghulis/Dohaeris. After tonight's episode it seems even more so now, with the Valar Morghulis greeting on Mel's behalf.

With Mel seeing Arya's 'faces' and the whole "we'll meet again" thing, I wonder if it's going to be a House of Black and White in Braavos or if they are going to switch it to a Lord of Light training camp for Arya's storyline.

[Kasrith]

I think the most unintentionally bad part of this, is that it sort of gives away Jon Snow's resurrection.. That is the biggest giveaway from this scene.

We're never told that Melisandre knows how to revive people from the dead, but now we are given a massive spoiler that she indeed is probably going to use the exact same 'magic' Thoros uses on Beric to bring back Jon Snow. Potentially creating a large plothole from the book and the show in how they handle Jon Snow's death.

On the other hand she also seems shocked at the resurrecting ability, as if she didn't think it was possible or something. Your point can easily be contradicted, both sides of the arguments presented rather weakly and only because of book knowledge so I saw wait and see what happens in WoW before assuming anything is given away..

[JonDunn]

Disagree - the Faceless Men are NOT associated with The Lord of Light. They are on the opposite side, the side of Death, the Great Other, and Darkness. #TeamArya.

[Faint]

So when/where are Mel and Arya going to meet again???

Have you read the Theon chapter from The Winds of Winter?

Because one possibility is if Melisandre accompanies Justin Massey to Braavos.

[Hoo]

On the other hand she also seems shocked at the resurrecting ability, as if she didn't think it was possible or something. Your point can easily be contradicted, both sides of the arguments presented rather weakly and only because of book knowledge so I saw wait and see what happens in WoW before assuming anything is given away..

Mel asked Thoros:"How many times did you revive him?" So she knows about revival, she is just skeptical about 6 times.

[Zar Lannister]

Isn't Jacqen a worshipper of the Red God?

I'm starting to get paranoid about Melisadre now.

And yes, their Valar Morgulis / Valar Dohaeris responses (Mel and Thoros) where among the things that made me tie the new crackpot theory of Melisandre and the FM

[Faint]

Well, here's the thing about Melisandre and revival: When Jon Snow is assassinated on the show, and Melisandre is there, the television audience will know that Melisande knows that revival is possible.

In the books, we don't know if Melisandre knows about revival, but the television show is telling us, explicitly, that she does.

Personally, I find that to be extremely significant. That's about as good as telling me that she is going to revive Jon Snow or at least try to.

[Darkstar of Dayne]

Warning: require_once() [function.require-once]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/base/core.php on line 1200

Warning: include() [function.include]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/classes/class_localization.php on line 835

This feels really big to me.

When will Mel see her again? Also, does this mean the whole Jeyne Poole story as Arya is cut? Because now Mel knows what Arya looks like?

Or maybe she didn't know who Arya was?! Because why wouldn't she have taken her to Stannis. Stannis holding Arya would be really good for him.

This.

Melissandre has the power to see into the future of Jon Snow (because he is AA presumably), but she claims not to know about Karstark until she reaches the wall because her visions are obscured by "snow". She also knows for a fact by the end of DwD at least that Karstark is NOT Arya.

The scene seems to indicate that Melissandre will meet Arya again - I'm guessing when Arya comes back to start taking revenge on her enemies.

Another thing that the show has been highlighting is that they're making a much bigger deal about "our god is the true god" both in conversations with Thoros and what Craster told the NW. The Red God and the White Walkers seem diametrically opposed - each with clearly demonstrated powers and although the Red religion is posed in a somewhat positive light, the things they are doing are also evil in nature (like Melissandre trying to sacrifice living humans by burning them alive). Something is very fishy about those two religions and how they relate to the Old Gods and Bran's powers.

[Rocketshoes]

Plot hole? Huh?

Those dots only connect themselves because you want them to connect.

We're given the explanation about wargs and their second lives, then we're shown the sacrifice infront of a heart tree and the show has made it absolutely clear that Lady's death paid for Bran's life. Why is Bran not a better candidate to resurrect Jon Snow? Melisandre also doesn't seem to believe that a man can be resurrected six times even with the proof right infront of her.

There is a potential plothole if Melisandre is hovering over Jon's dead body on the tv show in a couple of seasons claiming she isn't sure what to do. Which could very well happen if book Melisandre isn't actually aware of the resurrection technique show Melisandre is aware of.

We do know that Jon Snow is warging in Ghost's body after death, so there is a possibility that Melisandre has knowledge of this resurrection technique and brings him back without his 'soul' in tact because it is still trapped in ghost. At that point, I have no idea what they might do to put him back together again.

It just wouldn't make any sense for anyone other than Melisandre to initially(keyword here) attempt to revive him now given her knowledge of revival techniques, unless Bran could possibly act faster. Maybe her attempts actually fail because a body containing a soul is a requirement for the spell..

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Disagree - the Faceless Men are NOT associated with The Lord of Light. They are on the opposite side, the side of Death, the Great Other, and Darkness. #TeamArya.

R'hollor and the Great Other don't seem to fit in well with the Many Faced God. Both R'hollor and the "Great Other" are supposedly resurrecting people from death that is not something that would be copacetic with MFG.

[Faint]

There is a potential plothole if Melisandre is hovering over Jon's dead body on the tv show in a couple of seasons claiming she isn't sure what to do. Which could very well happen if book Melisandre isn't actually aware of the resurrection technique show Melisandre is aware of.

Exactly. The television audience has just been told that Melisandre is aware that a person that can be revived and possibly that she is able to do it. Why would the creators of the show, who know exactly what is going to happen to Jon, do that?

I found that whole scene very informative.

[Hoo]

I found that whole scene very informative.

Maybe to book readers, but not to me.

So far I know that Beric has been revived 6 times, and revival is possible.

The way to do it is to have someone say a prayer. I do not know whether the prayer has to be spoken by a priest, because Thoros did not consider himself a priest the first time he revived Beric.

I know that it depends on the will of Lord of the Light, so we don't know whether it will work ever again.

[Faint]

Maybe to book readers, but not to me.

You do realize this is a book spoilers thread, right?

[Groney]

When Davos releases Gendry, will it be back to the brotherhood or just lets him go where he wants? Because Gendry was betrayed by them in this episode so I don't see how he can get back together with them.

[Faint]

When Davos releases Gendry, will it be back to the brotherhood or just lets him go where he wants? Because Gendry was betrayed by them in this episode so I don't see how he can get back together with them.

Perhaps that is an indication that Gendry's association with the Brotherhood is not terribly important to the future of the story.

[Hoo]

]

You do realize this is a book spoilers thread, right?

Yes, and I also realize that the show is deviating from the books.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

You do realize this is a book spoilers thread, right?

I think he's trying to say that he's not going to trust the show to write the last two books from GRRM.

I'm not either.

[Faint]

Yes, and I also realize that the show is deviating from the books.

I think he's trying to say that he's not going to trust the show to write the last two books from GRRM.

I'm not either.

Perhaps, but will the show deviate so much that Melisandre will not be at Castle Black? I find that implausible.