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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Gendry, Melisandre, Arya, etc.

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I think they gave Gendry Edric's part because they wanted to give Gendry a reason to not want to be with the BwB until Beric isn't leading them anymore. So that they can have him continuing on under unCat, perhaps. Or maybe to set up that conflict with unCat (different factions split off, right? I can't remember)

Yes, basically when Beric dies for good the Brotherhood without Banners dies, it's purpose dies or changes is more like it. Some people journey off with unCat bent on revenge for the RW and trying to find Arya/the Hound.

Not really sure what they other faction is doing fighting the Mummers more openly but there's definitely a split that Thoros mentions.

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A point that hasn't been made that I found very interesting. It seemed like Arya could see through Mel's glamor and tricks and I loved that they did that. She was the first to spot Mel even before she was visible to the eyes of Anguy and the others. She was the first to call her out as a witch and said she didn't like her before she bought Gendry. I just think its awesome that they alluded to this especially from what we read in Dance with her tricks of glamor and the faceless man's as well.

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What's your theory?

parts of it may be a little weak

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86128-a-possible-way-back-for-arya/

The gist of it is that the iron bank hires faceless men and she is sent to kill jon. If that was foreshadowing, then she would run into Melisandre while out performing the assassination.

The whole thing is pretty crackpot, I admit lol

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Of course, given how bad Mel is at her job, it could just be 'fake' Arya she thinks she'll meet again without realizing fake Arya is a fake, in which case, this becomes less interesting.

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parts of it may be a little weak

http://asoiaf.wester...-back-for-arya/

The gist of it is that the iron bank hires faceless men and she is sent to kill jon. If that was foreshadowing, then she would run into Melisandre while out performing the assassination.

The whole thing is pretty crackpot, I admit lol

Especially since Jon has just signed a deal with the Iron Bank of Braavos. I don't think that makes any sense at all.

What does make sense is that Arya wants to go to the Wall to see Jon again, she just isn't ready to leave until she gets some more Faceless Man training but that is where she will go if she goes back to Westeros on her own terms.

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I assume she found the location by looking into her flames.

Sooo... lemme get this straight. Melisandre's powers are so good, she can look into the flames and depict the exact pinpoint location of Gendry, AND the fact that he exists in the first place (which she couldn't have possibly known before, no one knew who Gendry was) ... BUT her special powers aren't good enough to tell her who the real Arya is?

I'm having a hard time buying that.

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I think the quote about the different eyes also imply Arya's status as a faceless men.

But the thing that annoyed me was Mellisandre saying "Valar Morgulis", that's not her saying. That's the Faceless Men's saying, because they worship death. She does not.

That is not a FM saying. It is an Essos saying.

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Unfortunately, I think they're going to kill off Gendry in place of Edric (I'm sorry...I can't remember if Edric actually dies in the book, I don't think so...) but more importantly he'll take the place of the leeches that Stannis burns in order to kill off Balon, Joffrey, and Robb. Because let's face it, that crazy fire magic works, but I don't think the tv audience will understand that subtle connection if it is only leeches. They need something emotional and heartbreaking (like, you know, killing off a likable side character) to make the masses pay attention.

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Unfortunately, I think they're going to kill off Gendry in place of Edric (I'm sorry...I can't remember if Edric actually dies in the book, I don't think so...) but more importantly he'll take the place of the leeches that Stannis burns in order to kill off Balon, Joffrey, and Robb. Because let's face it, that crazy fire magic works, but I don't think the tv audience will understand that subtle connection if it is only leeches. They need something emotional and heartbreaking (like, you know, killing off a likable side character) to make the masses pay attention.

My bet is on Mellisndre going to corrupt him, while having him where she needs him, but he is not going to die soon.

He did get a little corrupt when staying with the BwB also.

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Unfortunately, I think they're going to kill off Gendry in place of Edric (I'm sorry...I can't remember if Edric actually dies in the book, I don't think so...) but more importantly he'll take the place of the leeches that Stannis burns in order to kill off Balon, Joffrey, and Robb. Because let's face it, that crazy fire magic works, but I don't think the tv audience will understand that subtle connection if it is only leeches. They need something emotional and heartbreaking (like, you know, killing off a likable side character) to make the masses pay attention.

Edric is saved by Davos, and it's been speculated that the fetuses(?) that Selyse keeps will be used instead of the leeches.

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Edric is saved by Davos, and it's been speculated that the fetuses(?) that Selyse keeps will be used instead of the leeches.

I've heard that theory. It would grab more attention than leeches, certainly, but I don't think that's going to happen. The fetuses are decidedly dead and I think that would go against Melisandre's very black and white views about good vs evil, life vs death, R'hllor Vs The Stranger, etc etc. But hey, I still wouldn't be surprised if the show veered off in that direction.

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I agree. It'd be nice if true; however, it's nothing that couldn't be gleamed from the books—that Arya will kill many people, that is; the ghost of HH implied as much.

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Sooo... lemme get this straight. Melisandre's powers are so good, she can look into the flames and depict the exact pinpoint location of Gendry, AND the fact that he exists in the first place (which she couldn't have possibly known before, no one knew who Gendry was) ... BUT her special powers aren't good enough to tell her who the real Arya is?

I'm having a hard time buying that.

Melisandre is seeking one of King Robert's bastards, not Gendry specifically, she doesn't care who he is, just what he is. King Robert was known to father many bastards, all she has to do is find one in the flames and boom, done.

She saw visions of Gendry the king's bastard son because she needs king's blood for her magics. She doesn't start looking for Arya until Meliandre hooks up with Jon Snow and sees how much he cares about her.

Oh man, as an Arya fan, my stomach dropped when Mel said those foreshadowing lines about her!!!! I so want to believe this is D&D giving us a teaser hint about events of future books.

And yet Melisandre gave us even less of a vision than the Ghost of High heart. She told us nothing that hasn't happened in future books.

To TV viewers yeah that whole "I see a darkness in you..." was kinda creepy.

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My bet is on Mellisndre going to corrupt him, while having him where she needs him, but he is not going to die soon.

He did get a little corrupt when staying with the BwB also.

Sorry, could you expand on this? I don't know what you mean...Gendry wasn't "corrupted" by the BWB. If anything it shows the kind of great person that Gendry is. He was born lowborn and has always been judged by that and is even hunted for it (even though he doesn't know exactly why). Yet, he wants to help people and he wants to do it in a way that won't confine him. He wants a real family and he chooses the family he wants, which is a group of people who help other people (before he is sold of course). So, what do you mean he was "corrupted"?

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Sorry, could you expand on this? I don't know what you mean...Gendry wasn't "corrupted" by the BWB. So, what do you mean he was "corrupted"?

Gendry tells Brienne that she's going to die. The BwB after Beric dies for good is vengeful organization that betrays guest right, fair trials, ransoming and basically every law in the book. They were outlaws before but under unCat they sink to a new low in some ways.

Gendry also blindly follows the faith of R'hollor because of the magic that he saw Thoros perform and is disrespectful to others faiths(like most everyone else in the BwB, except Thoros)

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Sorry, could you expand on this? I don't know what you mean...Gendry wasn't "corrupted" by the BWB.

Well you could argue that he was corrupted because he became a follower of R'hllor. He makes that pretty clear to Brienne. Also, it appears he is ok with the "justice" LS is giving out.

Whether or not you see him as corrupted depends on whether or not you think these things are bad.

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Gendry tells Brienne that she's going to die. The BwB after Beric dies for good is vengeful organization that betrays guest right, fair trials, ransoming and basically every law in the book. They were outlaws before but under unCat they sink to a new low in some ways.

Gendry also blindly follows the faith of R'hollor because of the magic that he saw Thoros perform and is disrespectful to others faiths(like most everyone else in the BwB, except Thoros)

I see where you are coming from but I don't really agree. It would make sense if we had some sense of Gendry's moral compass to begin with. But really, in ACoK, we already see that he is a bit flaky and comfortable with just being a smith to whatever lord will have him, as long as it keeps him alive and well. Hell, Arya is in great distress and is brutalized every day and Gendry pretty much tells her to deal with it. I think that with the BwB, he actually shows true values for the first time. He may be with a group that has shady morals, but I think this moves lifts him up rather than brings him down.

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Sorry, could you expand on this? I don't know what you mean...Gendry wasn't "corrupted" by the BWB. If anything it shows the kind of great person that Gendry is. He was born lowborn and has always been judged by that and is even hunted for it (even though he doesn't know exactly why). Yet, he wants to help people and he wants to do it in a way that won't confine him. He wants a real family and he chooses the family he wants, which is a group of people who help other people (before he is sold of course). So, what do you mean he was "corrupted"?

In the books Gendry feels handing off Brienne is not right, but he still does it, because it is how BwB operates.

Hell, Arya is in great distress and is brutalized every day and Gendry pretty much tells her to deal with it.

Where is she hurt where Gendry can help it? How is it bad to help her to keep herself alive in the situations she is in?

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