[BOOK SPOILERS] Meera vs. Osha

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Right? Where the f are all the direwolves? I don't think we've seen Grey Wind ONCE this whole season!

There are 2 times I can immediately recall

1) In the background during the Karstark beheading

2) Foreground watching the troops go past immediately before the "You lost the war the day you married her" exchange.

Ghost has had a couple of appearances

Shaggydog has had a couple of very minor appearances

Summer has had one major and one or two minor appearances.

[Joyful Union]

I did state that I wasn't saying that's what they were going for. I'm pretty sure the writer was like "hey, they don't get along because they both have strong personalities". I'm saying that it's not clear to us why they don't get along (or why it needs to be shown) and to me it looked like it was because of a stereotype. Look at the situation. Two women arguing over cooking.

Nope. Two women arguing over hunting and skinning. Hardly a stereotype.

[Sun]

He has 7 chapters combined in Storm and Dance, So long and grueling. :rolleyes:

I may be in the minority but personally I have never found Brans chapters boring. I am fascinated by the history of Westeros we get via the Reeds or Old Nan and i actually enjoy the fantasy elements in Brans story like Wolf dreams, Green Dreams, Weirwood Net, etc.. The KOLT, Queenscrown, and Nightfort chapters in ASOS were all very strong imo. His POV in Dance was in my top 3 favorites of the book. I definitely see how some people might think his chapters are dull ( i don't ) but either way i don't see how anyone can think Meera/Osha arguing over who is better at skinning rabbits is better :dunno:

Oh they were boring, not to mention repetitive and rather unpleasant (his warging of Hodor and mooning over Meera was so creepy) to read, as well. There's a reason Bran only has 7 chapters in 3 books. Nothing really interesting happens to him.

[Broken Fox]

Meera and Osha defy a lot of female stereotypes. I don't see the problem.

[Joyful Union]

Oh they were boring, not to mention repetitive and rather unpleasant (his warging of Hodor and mooning over Meera was so creepy) to read, as well. There's a reason Bran only has 7 chapters in 3 books. Nothing really interesting happens to him.

This, times a million. Bran better do something in WoW and DoS after all this.

[shiola]

I don't like that it will change the dynamics of the split. On the show it might seem more like Osha takes Rickon because she doesn't wanna put up with Bran's wolf dreams and Meera's attitude, rather than what it was in the books where it was just safer to not have Rickon going to the wall.

[chimere]

I'm pretty sure that the kid playing Rickon is a different actor and that's why they're being so weird about showing him this season.

[Broken Fox]

It's the same kid. Rickon just isn't very important right now.

[PG_Tips]

Nope. Two women arguing over hunting and skinning. Hardly a stereotype.

They're arguing while preparing food. Looks like a stereotype to me.

Meera and Osha defy a lot of female stereotypes. I don't see the problem.

Just because they, in themselves as characters, eschew many female stereotypes does not mean this scene refrains from presenting them as female stereotypes.

A person sat down and wrote this scene. I'm not saying that they thought haha, yeah that's what women do, cook and bitch at each other. No, I'm saying that the writer unconsciously wrote a scene that relied upon stereotypes. If there was a point to the argument I may have a different opinion, but it was pointless.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Don't really want to add fuel to this discussion, but wouldn't tensions be rising between Osha and Meera, since Meera is a stranger who held a knife to Osha's throat the first time they met?

I'm waiting for people to label this yet another "character assassination"

[Sniraga]

Don't really want to add fuel to this discussion, but wouldn't tensions be rising between Osha and Meera, since Meera is a stranger who held a knife to Osha's throat the first time they met?

I'm waiting for people to label this yet another "character assassination"

Nah, Osha is a wildling, she must be used to that sort of thing and not to get her knickers in a twist about it. :ninja:

[bbstark]

Don't really want to add fuel to this discussion, but wouldn't tensions be rising between Osha and Meera, since Meera is a stranger who held a knife to Osha's throat the first time they met?

I'm waiting for people to label this yet another "character assassination"

and Bran conveniently mentions that Osha held a knife to his throat when they first met. So I don't see what's the problem..

..it was SO obviously not a cat fight but a culture fight, North vs. South. North of the Wall, vs. "Lady Reed" (I half expected Meera to snap at her for that one) it was wildling vs. kneelers

Osha no longer sees Bran/Rickon as just lords but "her little lords"; she's been part of their story, she's helped raised and influence them. When you do that to a child, you feel proud, you know. And let's not forget that in the first season Osha's raison d'etre was to get "as far south as possible", can you consider what has happened in her life if she's willing to go back to the wall and beyond?

Meera is just a stranger to her, and a "Lady Stranger" at that; she reminds Osha what the caste system really is, and it grinds her gears. She doesn't want to do "yes m'lady, no m'lady" all over again.

And Meera doesn't like to be thought of as useless... notice how she takes complete care of Jojen?

I'm surprised no one else saw the beautiful subtletly in that scene. "Cat fight"... I scoff at you!

[Mark Antony]

Oh they were boring, not to mention repetitive and rather unpleasant (his warging of Hodor and mooning over Meera was so creepy) to read, as well. There's a reason Bran only has 7 chapters in 3 books. Nothing really interesting happens to him.

Just because you think they were boring doesn't mean they are. It's just your opinion, man.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

Scene did a couple of good things.

1) Showed Bran has some leadership

2) Rickon said something!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) The powers have costs

4) Gave Meera something to say

5) Gave them doubts about the course they were taking to Jon and Castle Black

ummmm

6) they had some supper

Bad

1) Argument came off as petty

2) Shows they really don't know what to do with Bran

3) Shows they really don't know what to do with Meera

4) Shows they really don't know what to do with Rickon

Thing is, I loved the Bran chapters in the books. They to me were like tasty asides to the main feast. The showrunners lack of depicting any prophesies sort of pulls the rug out from under Bran's story though. Obvious they are looking to go on a wild tangent with an invented plot - and this has me concerned.

:agree: too

I like Bran's chapters, but whatever they are doing with him this season is not even really remotely touching on what happens in his story. It's all a little odd and so far out of place. I'd like it if they explored his developing 'powers' more.

Maybe once Rickon and Osha leave, we can get some of the stories and history from the Reeds. :dunno:

I hope...

[King of the Road]

This, times a million. Bran better do something in WoW and DoS after all this.

Man, D+D really need to focus a little more on Jojen and Meera during the ADwD timeframe. Just watching Bran warging Hodor for 2 seasons won't do it for me. Maybe find some way of keeping Osha in the plot as well?

[Sun]

Just because you think they were boring doesn't mean they are. It's just your opinion, man.

Ofcourse it's my opinion, just as finding them not boring is yours. But the fact that Bran only has 7 chapters in 3 books, is fact. And that not much happens to him in those chapters, in comparison to what happens in other character arcs, is also pretty much established. As to the show, there's only so much they can do with Bran, considering his sparse and uneventful source material.

[Mark Antony]

Ofcourse it's my opinion, just as finding them not boring is yours. But the fact that Bran only has 7 chapters in 3 books, is fact. And that not much happens to him in those chapters, in comparison to what happens in other character arcs, is also pretty much established. As to the show, there's only so much they can do with Bran, considering his sparse and uneventful source material.

I agree with what you said. All i'm saying is i think that they can do much better than what they're doing.

[SilentSense]

I thought it was awful. Apparently the show writers don't consider the stories Meera tells interesting enough so they need to produce some phony tension w Osha.

[Darryk]

It was okay, did go on a bit long.

Think that story thread is really overdue some proper development though,

[The Night's Prince]

Sigh...they've become filler. Sad.