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sansatyrell

[SPOILERS] Tyrion and Sansa

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Probably because Tyrion is unambiguously wonderful guy on the show instead of who he is in the books.

And WTF is TWOP?

Television without Pity, it is a forum where people discuss TV Shows. They have a special thread where only show watchers can discuss her interpretations and predictions regarding the show.

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I liked it, because I think Sansa deserved to find out in that setting. The girl gets so much shit in her life, she deserves the small mercy of finding out in a private setting.

I thought it was so tragic in the books and so embarrassing and traumatic. It still is, but to a much lesser degree because she has time to numb herself to it and slide back into her obedient role that she's learned since the end of season 1.

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I think telling Sansa so far ahead of time will let a few things become meltdowns:

1. We get to see her regret not leaving with LF, so she's in a "Oh Gods, I've really effed this up, I should have trusted him" kind of mood. Which is interesting later on.

2. The whole Shae dynamic gets pushed up.

3. I think we still might get a Cersei is cruel scene by her faking joy in the whole thing when she brings Sansa her wedding dress. She'll probably be all, "Oh, and I'm going to marry Loras" just to drive it home that the Lannisters have been terrible to Sansa.

4. We'll still get Joff giving her away- although I imagine a slight change in dialogue where Joff will say something to the effect that Tyrion is going to let Joff have her anyway. This way, when Sansa pulls her "wildling moment" viewer people won't be so upset with her.

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I am pretty sure she knows about the sacking of Winterfell and the "deaths" of Bran and Rickon prior to her wedding.

I also believe she does. I'm interested to see where they take this whole thing. Prevailing opinion seems to be that Bran and Rickon are dead (Tywin says so) but Cat is still all, "We don't know for sure." I'm a little disappointed in that. Totally OT, but I was looking forward to that scene she was going to have with Brienne.

At this point, it's just more convenient for the Lannisters to believe the boys are dead.

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I liked the change, but it would have been nice to see the conversation and the facial expressions of all three of them.

I hope we don't see Cersei twist the knife in Sansa anymore. I really like that the show has made Cersei and Tyrion better people. It's more believable and certainly better television.

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Sansa wears gray dresses in every scene. Gray with a bit of lavender, and a heavy, warm material with long sleeves. Because she is from the north? Gray as the color of wolves? Or maybe also as an expression of her mood. The gray and lavender go very well with the red hair color they gave her, but the dresses look just too warm for the area. And that gown that she was trying on when Tyrion entered her room, that just looked awful.

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Sansa wears gray dresses in every scene. Gray with a bit of lavender, and a heavy, warm material with long sleeves. Because she is from the north? Gray as the color of wolves? Or maybe also as an expression of her mood. The gray and lavender go very well with the red hair color they gave her, but the dresses look just too warm for the area. And that gown that she was trying on when Tyrion entered her room, that just looked awful.

Didn't she say in this episode that she hoped Highgarden had better dressers than the ones in King's Landing? Or that she hoped Highgarden had more beautiful dresses, than the ones they gave her in King's Landing?

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I liked it, because I think Sansa deserved to find out in that setting. The girl gets so much shit in her life, she deserves the small mercy of finding out in a private setting.

I thought it was so tragic in the books and so embarrassing and traumatic. It still is, but to a much lesser degree because she has time to numb herself to it and slide back into her obedient role that she's learned since the end of season 1.

But it removes the impact of her act of defiance during the wedding, her refusal to kneel for Tyrion. Given the popularity of the characters (high for Tyrion, low for Sansa), I cannot see her humiliating him going over well with the fandom especially given she has been forewarned and given the ability to "numb herself." I am afraid that rather than a "You go Sansa" moment it will instead be viewed as "Why is she being such a bitch?", continuing the further diminishing of the character by the writers.

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But it removes the impact of her act of defiance during the wedding, her refusal to kneel for Tyrion. Given the popularity of the characters (high for Tyrion, low for Sansa), I cannot see her humiliating him going over well with the fandom especially given she has been forewarned and given the ability to "numb herself." I am afraid that rather than a "You go Sansa" moment it will instead be viewed as "Why is she being such a bitch?", continuing the further diminishing of the character by the writers.

yeah I sense (and have already seen a lot of) "nice guy" syndrome coming regarding tyrion and sansa's behavior towards him. so tired of it. people have to remember that sansa's a 13/14 year old girl who's had everything ripped from her. repeatedly.

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But it removes the impact of her act of defiance during the wedding, her refusal to kneel for Tyrion. Given the popularity of the characters (high for Tyrion, low for Sansa), I cannot see her humiliating him going over well with the fandom especially given she has been forewarned and given the ability to "numb herself." I am afraid that rather than a "You go Sansa" moment it will instead be viewed as "Why is she being such a bitch?", continuing the further diminishing of the character by the writers.

Given that the show is hitting ratings peaks each week this season and Tryion has little or no story arch so far in season3, I actually think his popularity on the show is overstated. The show just keeps trucking along. Compare him being sidelined to the death of Ned and the outrage it caused, who people loved. I think people are fond of Tyrion, but I think people love the Starks. Just my two cents.

I also think they are creating scenes for Peter as his character has nothing to do, thus we get the worst scene in the entire series, Pod and the whores comedy hour.

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Given that the show is hitting ratings peaks each week this season and Tryion has little or no story arch so far in season3, I actually think his popularity on the show is overstated. The show just keeps trucking along. Compare him being sidelined to the death of Ned and the outrage it caused, who people loved. I think people are fond of Tyrion, but I think people love the Starks. Just my two cents.

I also think they are creating scenes for Peter as his character has nothing to do, thus we get the worst scene in the entire series, Pod and the whores comedy hour.

Maybe they could actually do scenes where Tyrion is actually dark, instead of continuing to whitewash him. Hell, they could do the Symon side plot or they could have gradually become more excited for his future claim while ignoring Sansa's feelings anything besides another two bit scene where we are supposed to respond to with "gee Tyrion is a swell guy."

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I liked the way they handled the scene. Sansa crying at the end is better than watching her break down in front of Tyrion.

Well, some folk (me for instance) aren't going to muster much sympathy for Sansa either way, especially when portrayed by a 17 year old rather than a 13/14 year old. She's concerned about who makes prettier dresses, while her younger brothers are running for their lives, Arya is living in the wild, and Robb is fighting battles and trying to win a war. She doesn't appear to be alcking in any creature comforts, lives in a nice castle witha handmaiden....she just doesn't seem to be suffereing nearly as much in comparison.

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Well, some folk (me for instance) aren't going to muster much sympathy for Sansa either way, especially when portrayed by a 17 year old rather than a 13/14 year old. She's concerned about who makes prettier dresses, while her younger brothers are running for their lives, Arya is living in the wild, and Robb is fighting battles and trying to win a war. She doesn't appear to be alcking in any creature comforts, lives in a nice castle witha handmaiden....she just doesn't seem to be suffereing nearly as much in comparison.

They have completely cut out the fact she was beaten relentlessly and had to deal with Cersei until the BBW and was spoken to by no one and treated like a pariah, unable to mourn her father and surrounded by spies. Seriously they have mucked up her character and whole arc.

Edit: Unless we have got it wrong and the scene was Tyrion telling her about Bran and Rickon's deaths. Something we didn't see in the books, which would have been a good change for the show.

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Well, some folk (me for instance) aren't going to muster much sympathy for Sansa either way, especially when portrayed by a 17 year old rather than a 13/14 year old. She's concerned about who makes prettier dresses, while her younger brothers are running for their lives, Arya is living in the wild, and Robb is fighting battles and trying to win a war. She doesn't appear to be alcking in any creature comforts, lives in a nice castle witha handmaiden....she just doesn't seem to be suffering nearly as much in comparison.

lol yeah technically she's better off because she's not literally running for her life (at the moment), but she has been reduced to a pawn - like she might as well be an inanimate object with the way people treat her. she's been physically abused, nearly raped, and has NO freedom. i hate playing the "who's got it worse" game, because everyone's got it pretty freaking awful in different ways.

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yeah I sense (and have already seen a lot of) "nice guy" syndrome coming regarding tyrion and sansa's behavior towards him. so tired of it. people have to remember that sansa's a 13/14 year old girl who's had everything ripped from her. repeatedly.

But she doesn't look like a 13/14 year old girl, she looks around 17. And that's what matters. It doesn't matter if HBO website claims she's younger, if Tyrion says she's just a little girl or even if they mention her age in dialogues. She looks older.

And she is having a comfy life this season. Even the guards watching over her are so in the background it's not that noticeable that she's a prisoner. Add that she hasn't been beaten or threatened this season and that her home is burnt to the ground, and her stay in King's Landing doesn't seem that bad. She's definitely in a more comfortable position than her siblings this season.

It would have been great if they have a short scene where she's told about Bran and Rickon' supposed deaths, so at least viewers can feel some pity for her. Or her wishing she'd reunite with Arya (Ok, that would cause a lot of die hard book fans to complain as well, but it would humanize her and put her relationship with her family in context)

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Maybe they could actually do scenes where Tyrion is actually dark, instead of continuing to whitewash him. Hell, they could do the Symon side plot or they could have gradually become more excited for his future claim while ignoring Sansa's feelings anything besides another two bit scene where we are supposed to respond to with "gee Tyrion is a swell guy."

It's confounding that they've made Tyrion such a passive character this season (forced into marraige instead of convinced) and that is a knock on Sansa, yet here, its supposedly making Tyrion more of a 'swell guy'. An aggressive girl is a bitch, a passive girl is a pushover. If its ok for Arya to escape from this evil family, I say its ok for Sansa to do as well. That's an objective truth. People who see Sansa as a prize for Tyrion never really understood their storyline in the first place, I'd say.

If Tyrion isn't interested in bedding an underage hottie and the claim their child would have, then what is he after? What is his storyline in season three? Why waste screen any screen time on him if they aren't going do his story? If I take my stream of consciousness to its conclusion, it isn't Tyrion that's popular on the show, its Peter the actor, even if he isn't doing anything interesting at all.

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lol yeah technically she's better off because she's not literally running for her life (at the moment), but she has been reduced to a pawn - like she might as well be an inanimate object with the way people treat her.

That makes her still far better off than a great many other people in Westeros, right? One of the recurring themes we see in the books is how the concerns of the nobility over power really pale in terms of human significance when compared to the smallfolk who are starving to death/dying. Why should we feel any particular compasion for her?

she's been physically abused, nearly raped, and has NO freedom. i hate playing the "who's got it worse" game, because everyone's got it pretty freaking awful in different ways.

The "who's got it worse" game is relevant to how people are going to determine who is worthy of great sympathy. Sure, some folks who identify with Sansa for some particular reason may feel more for her, but to a lot of other folks who will compare her situation to that of her other family members and 90% of Westerosi, she doesn't have it all that bad. So to see her blubbering as LF's ship sales away....eh, eye-rolling territory for me.

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But she doesn't look like a 13/14 year old girl, she looks around 17. And that's what matters. It doesn't matter if HBO website claims she's younger, if Tyrion says she's just a little girl or even if they mention her age in dialogues. She looks older.

And she is having a comfy life this season. Even the guards watching over her are so in the background it's not that noticeable that she's a prisoner. Add that she hasn't been beaten or threatened this season and that her home is burnt to the ground, and her stay in King's Landing doesn't seem that bad. She's definitely in a more comfortable position than her siblings this season.

It would have been great if they have a short scene where she's told about Bran and Rickon' supposed deaths, so at least viewers can feel some pity for her. Or her wishing she'd reunite with Arya (Ok, that would cause a lot of die hard book fans to complain as well, but it would humanize her and put her relationship with her family in context)

I believe one thing that really hurts how she is perceived is her relative lack of expressed concern for what is happening to the rest of her family. They didn't do her any favors with the naivete of her "do you think they'll let my family come" question. No, Sansa, they won't, because they are trying to kill your little batch of traitors. But thanks for being more concerned about whether they can be at your wedding than whether they're actually, you know, still alive.

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That makes her still far better off than a great many other people in Westeros, right? One of the recurring themes we see in the books is how the concerns of the nobility over power really pale in terms of human significance when compared to the smallfolk who are starving to death/dying. Why should we feel any particular compasion for her?

The "who's got it worse" game is relevant to how people are going to determine who is worthy of great sympathy. Sure, some folks who identify with Sansa for some particular reason may feel more for her, but to a lot of other folks who will compare her situation to that of her other family members and 90% of Westerosi, she doesn't have it all that bad. So to see her blubbering as LF's ship sales away....eh, eye-rolling territory for me.

And yet people feel bad for emo Jon, who despite being raised better then 99% of Westeros and is in safer conditions then all of his siblings, when he continues to whine about how he didn't get to sit a big table or how Catelyn didn't love him.

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Yeah, this scene bothered me a lot. As had been mentioned by other posters, it was bizarre - to me -

  • that they had Tyrion tell her in the first place
  • that she was given 'advance' warning
  • that he went on and told her with Shae in the room (please, he could have insisted on being alone with Sansa, though I read another poster who said they thought this was a set up for Shae's jealousy to be built up to the point where she'd later testify against Tyrion)

At any rate, it's much more appropriate to have Cercei just waltz up and spring it on her en route to the altar, so to speak. More characteristic of Cercei, more pain and unfairness to Sansa (as the whole thing was both).

Nonetheless, the whole marriage prospect ensures that Sansa will indeed sail away with LF, however it's officially engineered.

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