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(Book Spoilers) The whitewashing of Cersei

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

I think she is painted that way until we find out some things attributed to her were done by other people. But she once Joffrey dies, she definitely engages in some villainous behavior with her use of Qyburn. Plus, she get Lady killed and I think some people will never forgive her for her part in that one.

I think she is an interesting character and while I never like her, I do enjoy her story and feel some sympathy for her b/c she is so clearly messed up mentally and delusional about herself.

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well this season we have seen her witnessing the Tyrells power play and trying to get Tywin and Joffrey to react to her, she is finding that she has no power now or her traditional power base ha been removed, she cannot manipulate Jofferey as she once did and Tywin has always been beyond her power, she is trying to exercise power and findng she cant, thus her frustration which will lead to her craziness. actually as I think of it it is beig done fairly well.

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

Really? Let's see. She had her husband killed. She raised, groomed, enabled and encouraged her psychopathic son to be as psychopathic as he wished to be, leading directly to the death of Ned Stark. She had Sansa's wolf killed for no reason. She allowed Sansa Stark to be brutalized by her psychopathic son. She had all of Robert's bastard children killed. She ruined her brother's life and turned on him as soon he defied her. She bullies and emotionally abuses Tommen. She sends her allies to be tortured by a defrocked maester.

There is plenty to hate about her and there is no redemption arc, unlike Jamie she gets worse not better as the story progresses.

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

Is this a joke?

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

is that a serious post? she sends all of her enemies to be tortured in a dungeon by qyburn. she has sex with half of kings landing, then accuses a bunch of innocent teenage girls of doing just that. she orders soldiers to rip babies out of their mothers' arms and kill them, both in lannisport and kings landing. and we shouldn't hate her because she hasn't killed anyone highborn? she is probably one of the worst human beings in the books.

also, a redemption arc comparable to Jamie? Jamie sees the error of his ways and begins changing as a person. cersei confesses so the septas will stop messing with her, and even when she does confess, she denies half of what she really did do. she has done some evil shit, but takes responsibility for none of it, always blaming others for her own problems and mistakes. she hasn't had a redemption arc at all, let alone one comparable to Jamie.

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she has sex with half of kings landing,

She has had sex with Jaime, Robert, Lancel, and Kettlebeck other then that we have no other major examples.

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She has had sex with Jaime, Robert, Lancel, and Kettlebeck other then that we have no other major examples.

don't split hairs, you know what I mean. she sleeps around to get people to do what she wants, then accuses a bunch of teens of sleeping with a bunch of those same people.

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Really? Let's see. She had her husband killed. She raised, groomed, enabled and encouraged her psychopathic son to be as psychopathic as he wished to be, leading directly to the death of Ned Stark. She had Sansa's wolf killed for no reason. She allowed Sansa Stark to be brutalized by her psychopathic son. She had all of Robert's bastard children killed. She ruined her brother's life and turned on him as soon he defied her. She bullies and emotionally abuses Tommen. She sends her allies to be tortured by a defrocked maester.

There is plenty to hate about her and there is no redemption arc, unlike Jamie she gets worse not better as the story progresses.

she also had children with her twin and tortured her little brother, along with murdering another child in cold blood.

Whats the problem?

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don't split hairs, you know what I mean. she sleeps around to get people to do what she wants, then accuses a bunch of teens of sleeping with a bunch of those same people.

wait a second, she sets the teens up, she doesnt just accuse them. She offers to fuck a guy if he lies about having sex with them- she's despicable and utterly irredeemable. Which is why I like her book character. No grey.

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wait a second, she sets the teens up, she doesnt just accuse them. She offers to fuck a guy if he lies about having sex with them- she's despicable and utterly irredeemable. Which is why I like her book character. No grey.

yeah, I consider her very much a "black" character with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. IMO, even her protectiveness of her children is part power hunger, part narcissism.

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

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Cercei is perhaps the most cold-blooded character in the entire series, excepting Joffrey and Tywin (and Qyburn). Littlefinger is cold-blooded, but Cercei has him beat.

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Cercei is perhaps the most cold-blooded character in the entire series, excepting Joffrey and Tywin (and Qyburn). Littlefinger is cold-blooded, but Cercei has him beat.

Ramsay and Gregor are worse imho.

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

My face when I read this.

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Cercei is perhaps the most cold-blooded character in the entire series, excepting Joffrey and Tywin (and Qyburn). Littlefinger is cold-blooded, but Cercei has him beat.

Hmm, I think you could get quite a topic out of this. Littlefinger less cold than Cercei? Lets see:

1) he manipulates Lysa into killing Jon Aryn so he can fill his boots much later on- Note- Jon Aryn was the guy who appointed him to a position in Gulltown before raising him to Master of Coin. He was loved by all. As cold blooded goes that is sub-zero.

2) he then uses this situation to deliberately shit-stir an avoidable war between the Starks and the Lannisters, becoming a chief architect behind all the horrors of war we see so graphically illustrated in Arya's chapters in ACOK. He didn't need to, he was not compelled to do it by honour or self-preservation. He did it purely to create opportunities for himself to shin his way up the greasy pole. In terms of cost-benefit, that is far worse than anything Cercei does.

He does this in several stages:

-getting Lysa to write a letter to Catelyn accusing the Lannisters of murdering Jon, which caused Catelyn to pressurise the Ned into entering the snake-pit.

-Lying about the knife to get Tyrion in trouble- he could have kept quiet

-Leading the Ned to discover the truth about Cercei/Jamie before betraying him

3) He then plots and has a hand in Kingslaying despite it being largely unnecessary from his POV. Was it to keep Joffrey quiet? Was it to create a diversion? Who knows.

4) He then kills his wife- a woman who loved him, who he had used, and who he no longer had any further use for.

Cercei on the other hand was deeply paranoid after her son was poisoned. She was suspicious that the Tyrells were somehow in cahoots with Tyrion for that, so relatively speaking, her motives were not "cold"- she was being fiercely jealous and protective towards her son Tommen. She was also being protective of the Lannister legacy- a hangover from her father. When Tommen and Margary came of age, the chances were, without Cercei's intervention, the Lannister's would be reduced to playing second fiddle. It's true she was highly manipulative, but she doesn't use people before turning on them to the same extent LF does.

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Cersei's waaay guilty of the same kind of callous use and discarding of people too, though. Just one example - remember the lady from AFFC that she gives to Qyburn for his experiments after her husband gets killed confronting Bronn on Cersei's behalf? She was a loyal friend and there was literally nothing to gain by disposing of her at that point, and Cersei knew exactly what she was doing in handing her over to Qyburn. One of the best examples of meaningless cruelty in the series.

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I dunno why people hate her so much. She really hasn't done anything in the entire series to warrant real hate. She never killed anyone people cared about, nor was indirectly responsible for any such deaths. She was only trying to play the game as much as every other principal character, and she failed miserably at it. The things she ended up having to go through in the books would indicate that she clearly was punished for her deeds, and her current arc can be seen as a redemption arc similar to Jaime's.

GRRM would not have made her a POV character if she was simply a villain like Joffrey.

If this is satire, you win the internet today. If it's not, then you're due for a re-read of the books, and this time, try to read them whilst awake.

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wait a second, she sets the teens up, she doesnt just accuse them. She offers to fuck a guy if he lies about having sex with them- she's despicable and utterly irredeemable. Which is why I like her book character. No grey.

I do think she has some grey. But she's mostly black, and a very very dark character. Which is her strength. You feel for her because her story is tragic, not because she has some good in her, and that's why she's so complex and good to read.

[snip]

Cercei on the other hand was deeply paranoid after her son was poisoned. She was suspicious that the Tyrells were somehow in cahoots with Tyrion for that, so relatively speaking, her motives were not "cold"- she was being fiercely jealous and protective towards her son Tommen. She was also being protective of the Lannister legacy- a hangover from her father. When Tommen and Margary came of age, the chances were, without Cercei's intervention, the Lannister's would be reduced to playing second fiddle. It's true she was highly manipulative, but she doesn't use people before turning on them to the same extent LF does.

I agree. In fact, Littlefinger is the one true cartoon-like villain in this sense.

If this is satire, you win the internet today. If it's not, then you're due for a re-read of the books, and this time, try to read them whilst awake.

I don't know if that poster is having a laugh or what, but some do romanticise Cersei a lot...

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She's the one sending him away because he annoys her and doesn't do as he's told.

So her decline is partly down to her own actions. I don't recall saying different

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