Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Payne In the Neck

[Book Spoilers] Melisandre Meets Arya

Recommended Posts

I actually really liked this scene. It was a good way to include a little Ghost of High Heart without introducing yet another character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes it sound like her time with the FM , in the books it's not clear that the FM actually have a god.

The FM worship the God of Many Faces and Many names, or for short death. All men must die, in the end no matter what god someone worships they die.

The Many Faced God seems more a philosophical concept to them.

They do not have services or even preach some kind of gospel.

Wiki says they have 'priests' but I don't remember that explicitly from the books.

Seem more like consultants, will give you an assisted suicide , after consultation, I guess.

GRRM paints them as a weird cult , not really a band of assassins , which it seems everybody thinks of them as.

The kindly man is called a priest. Men could ask to speak to a priest, which seems to me like them asking for a contract by making a huge sacrifice without a lot of prayer.

Their not a simple group of assassins, they're more like the CIA or KGB. A simple group of assassins assassinates people, all the kills we've seen the FM make in the show and the book(except Amory Lorch) were done so mysteriously that almost everyone assumes they just died. Also a major part of Arya's training is learning how to detect lies, gather information and hide her emotions so that she can lie.

They did start out as a philosophical concept because the first of their order saw the slaves all praying for death to many different gods and none of their gods answering, so he took matters into his own hands and became the instrument of death.

The scene gave me the feeling that Melisandre saw that Arya would one day kill her.

If that was true why would Melisandre not kill Arya at that moment?

I thought it meant that Melisandre sees her possibly working for darkness, which is in opposition to her god. The "Night Wolf", losing her identity, working for the Faceless Men, killing people.... all those seem like dark things.

Mel seems to have this ability to see into a person's "soul" for lack of a better word. She tells Renly to "look to his sins, for the night is dark and full of terrors", she says something similar to Davos when trying to "figure him out" the half an onion is black then it's rotten deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well at best an accidental killer, so far.

There was nothing accidental about her killing the guard at Harrenhal when she, Hotpie and Gendry escaped there.

In the book it's even more deliberate, and she kills several Harrenhal guards with Jaqen's help

The scene gave me the feeling that Melisandre saw that Arya would one day kill her.

That's intriguing. It's not hard to imagine future circumstances where Arya may want to kill Mellisandre.

She could end up doing that as an assignment from the House of B&W, or on her own motive for something that happens to a sibling (likely Jon)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how I took it too, I'm kind of surprised so many people are taking it as a reference to a specific three. Then again, I guess it's just fun to spitball.

I think her being specific with the eye colors is what has people scratching their head.. basic eye colors yes but still cryptic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Arya will pose as Tyrion's corpse and finish off Cersei. That means Arya won't, "die" per se but she will cease to be a Stark or Arya Stark anymore, she's not coming back as a Stark, she's a FM and that is how she will finish the series.

Tyrion will die, he will end up as a corpse in Braavos and his body will be taken to the House of Black and White where Arya will assume it and finish off Cersei who is in hiding somewhere in the world. . . . maybe Yi Ti?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the book it's even more deliberate, and she kills several Harrenhal guards with Jaqen's help

she kills no one with Jaqen's help. She helps get the weasel soup, no more. She stays out of the way while they kill the guards, unless you count Jaqen bloodying her shirt to show her that "this is her work"

She doesn't know if she killed anyone in the "battle near god's eye" either when Yoren dies so at this point she's at a death count of 2 in the books and one in the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised Melisandre's magic didn't reveal that she was speaking to Ned Stark's missing daughter. Missed opportunity for Stannis to gain a valuable hostage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took Mel's words as the writers' interpretation of the witch of High Heart's words, that Arya has the smell of death about her. The brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes shut forever simply to mean that Arya is destined to bring death to an untold number of people, not any specific persons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the training Arya will get with the FM to hide her feelings and her thoughts will help her to kill Melisandre in the end...cause every attempt to kill the Red Woman so far have been seen in her flames before...but Arya could well be able to hide herself.

I think the FM could be hired by Varys/Illyrio to kill Mel, because Stannis is in their way to get the false dragon on the Iron Throne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been wondering about Arya's story in the next few seasons. I just cant see them having Arya change her face in the show because it would mean someone would replace Maisie Williams for a few scenes/episodes. Obviously it is a big part of her story but i think it would be better to just have Maisie WIlliams (maybe with makeup or something) play the part until she actually has her first assignment (if they ever get that far in the show)

And i really think that Arya's arc could be one of the best in the show if they do it right. I woud love if they got John Hurt to play the Kindly Man. John Hurt teaching Maisie Williams about detecting lies, spying and killing people would make great television :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya's adventures in Braavos could be a show of their own. All the boats, temples, prostitutes, merchants and kills... sigh~~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been wondering about Arya's story in the next few seasons. I just cant see them having Arya change her face in the show because it would mean someone would replace Maisie Williams for a few scenes/episodes. Obviously it is a big part of her story but i think it would be better to just have Maisie WIlliams (maybe with makeup or something) play the part until she actually has her first assignment (if they ever get that far in the show)

And i really think that Arya's arc could be one of the best in the show if they do it right. I woud love if they got John Hurt to play the Kindly Man. John Hurt teaching Maisie Williams about detecting lies, spying and killing people would make great television :)

I will say it for the third time.

In the 'face changing' sequence in ADwD Arya realizes her face has NOT changed, but she looks different to other people.

(Tho it's not clear it's way to the FM.) She realizes it's either a piece of magic or a trick. There is an explicit paragraph describing this on the page.

George wrote it. It on the page , have to read it carefully.

Ok, magic I can buy.

On screen I can see how this could be done when other people look at Arya they see the Ugly Girl, when the viewer is the POV we see Arya.

Ok here is the words from the book" THE UGLY LITTLE GIRL:

"Was she certain? She had not felt any change maybe it was not something you could feel. She swept a hand down across her face from top to bottom , as she had once seen Jaqen H'ghar do, back at Harrenhal.. When he did , his whole face had rippled and changed. When she did , nothing had happened. "It feels the same."

"To you." said the priest.

"It does not look the same."

"To other eyes, your nose and jaw are broken," said the waif. "One side of your face is caved in where the cheekbone shattered and half your teeth are missing."

She probed around inside her mouth with her tongue, but found no holes or broken teeth.

Sorcery, she thought.

What to make of that? FM can use some deep magic to change their faces , as it appears to others, but their nameday face has not changed at all?

Looks like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just watched the episode again, and Melisandre says, "eyes you'll shut forever." To me, this sounds like she is definitely referencing eyes of the victims that Arya will kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took at as being the eyes of those she has already killed. Mel was saying she could see the lives that Arya has already taken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's how I took it as well--the eyes are eyes of people she will kill in future--pretty sure any deeper interpretations are wrong. But, remember, Show Arya does not have the same killing resume as Book Arya at this point in time.

I agree, it is the simplest explanation and the most fun. Let's speculate wildly. Are the blue eyes Stannis? Ramsay?

Interesting that the show has introduced the existence of the Iron Bank, which we assume will back Stannis as in the books. Would the FM act in accordance with the Iron Bank, or might they have a contrary agenda?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was far more intrigued by the "We will meet again line." Come on! I need to know more right now. It could be interpreted one thousand different ways... or you know, maybe they'll just meet again sometime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That line was very intriguing, can't work out what it's about.

On the other hand, it was as vague as could possibly be. "Green eyes, blue eyes, brown eyes". Wow, really narrowing down the possible options there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was far more intrigued by the "We will meet again line." Come on! I need to know more right now. It could be interpreted one thousand different ways... or you know, maybe they'll just meet again sometime.

I was thinking that Melisandre is most likely referring to her erroneous vision that Arya will come to the Wall while she and Stannis are there. We know she thinks that she will meet Arya (at least once she has the vision) - it just turns out that she is wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about hazel eyes, Melisandre? What about hazel eyes!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×