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Nagisa Furukawa

[Book Spoilers] Blackfish

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Edmure may be immature and the Blackfish frustrated; but it doesn't change that Edmure is now Brynden's lord. As far as being weak of character, Edmure wasn't the one who ruined the Frey alliance by breaking his word to marry Lord Walder's daughter - but he's being pushed to pay for Robb's mistake; and I don't blame Edmure for being a bit annoyed.

I'm referring to how Catelyn sees her brother in her POV. She doesn't see him as strong, mature, etc..., so that's how we see him. That's completely separate from the decision he made to attack. Again, I completely agree that Edmure gets the shaft with respect to the latter, just as he did in the book.

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Or they could have had Edmure turn to his uncle and offer him the bow in frustration, and the Blackfish hurriedly doing it, and you maintain the idea that Edmure's not as competent, that the Blackfish is more capable, and you don't need to turn him into a rather nasty thug who shoves aside his nephew. And then they could have saved his issues with Edmure for later.

Yeah, I'd have preferred that too.

As it is, Edmure has been completely slighted on the show, made into a one-note clown, it seems....

I always had the impression of Edmure being pretty much slighted period.

and his relationship with the Blackfish similarly one-note. No complexity to it, just outright "this one's an idiot", "this one's a thug."

Edmure being an idiot doesn't bother me too much, but I do think some repair work is needed on the Blackfish to give him some wisdom as well as strength if they want to bring him right on line with book Blackfish, which they may choose not to do. Nor do I get the logic of using him to "replace" the Greatjon, which some others have mentioned. There's no need to replace that character specifically.

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When I first twigged on to the idea that he was going to take on some Greatjon-ish traits, I didn't mind -- fine, they wanted to play with that physicality -- but I didn't realize just what they were going to do with it.

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But shoving someone aside makes you rude, not a thug. It's not like he threw him to the floor and kicked him. Bronn, now, he is a thug.

And when The Blackfish says he will knock Edmure's lights out he doesn't mean he is literally going to punch him. It's his way of saying I'm really disappointed in your attitude youngster - you better 'man up'. His behaviour is overbearing and as someone who is disappointed in his younger relative, and has no other way of conveying it to him emotionally. The Blackfish is obviously not a caring sharing sensitive soul that way! But I get the impression he does care about his nephew.

In any other show I would say this is being portrayed somewhat black & white as it is at the moment so that at some point in the future Edmure will have his day and The Blackfish as the de facto father-figure will admit the boy did good. But that sort of thing is not usually the GoT way...

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didnt she try and send herself to pyke instead of theon?

No. She tells Robb not to trust Theon OR the ironborn.

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Here's my two cents....

Blackfish does seem a bit of an aggressive asshole in the show compared to bookfish (by this I mean towards Edmure)

However, show Edmure is a lot more pompous, and somewhat antagonistic than book Edmure, who always gave the impression of being a nice well-meaning, yet ultimately incompetent guy. He book Edmure is a lot more endearing and likable than show Edmure. This causes show Blackfish to behave more aggressively towards him than Bookfish would.

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In all honesty, I think the biggest problem with the Blackfish is that he wasn't cast in season 1. His voice along with the Greatjon's could have added weight and more support for Robb and his cause along the way. Especially since Greatjon Umber seems to have been completely written out of the show now.

I like the actor and the book character a lot. I just hope he doesn't spend all of his scenes bullying his liege-lord nephew

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I do think that's a bit much. OTOH, Edmure just became Lord of Riverrun, so prior to that, there is an entire lifetime of the Blackfish likely being frustrated by his somewhate feckless nephew. Edmure is not a kid who might be expected to grow out of things, he's a mature man, seemingly rather weak of character, who has failed to grow into maturity. And with their entire future on the line, Blackfish is probably thinking that there's no time for coddling.

Blackfish barely knows his nephew well enough to be so judgemental. Didnt he just return home after being banished for twenty years?

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But shoving someone aside makes you rude, not a thug. It's not like he threw him to the floor and kicked him. Bronn, now, he is a thug.

And when The Blackfish says he will knock Edmure's lights out he doesn't mean he is literally going to punch him. It's his way of saying I'm really disappointed in your attitude youngster - you better 'man up'. His behaviour is overbearing and as someone who is disappointed in his younger relative, and has no other way of conveying it to him emotionally. The Blackfish is obviously not a caring sharing sensitive soul that way! But I get the impression he does care about his nephew.

In any other show I would say this is being portrayed somewhat black & white as it is at the moment so that at some point in the future Edmure will have his day and The Blackfish as the de facto father-figure will admit the boy did good. But that sort of thing is not usually the GoT way...

Shoving Edmure aside at the funeral was a politcal act, Brynden was publicly dismmisive of Edmure. I agree that Brynden would have actually tried to bust out Edmures teeth if thats what he really intended. He does not usually give warnings, he did not give one to Karstark last week. His loyalty seems to be to Robb who is his nephew and his and Edmures King, so he answers directly to Robb.

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I doesn't "ruin" him, he's perfectly cast as the BF, its just one of the more inexplicable decision by the show that does not make sense in context of book or show....disrespecting his liege lord to that extent is not realistic, super cutting sarcastic put downs, sure, physical violence and threats to punch him out--ridiculous.

I like the guy they cast as Edmure, he seems fine, he has the befuddled, way out of his depth as a high lord feel to him that I expected from his book character.

Well yes - but Edmure has only just assumed the role, and he's the BF's kid nephew who clearly doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Must be very frustrating for the BF, who must surely see himself as a more capable man in the circumstances.

Take the point about Edmure being royally shafted on multiple fronts though, poor chap!

*still say the actor is too weasely though - but I guess that's just because I've always seen him play bad guys. ;)

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Blackfish barely knows his nephew well enough to be so judgemental. Didnt he just return home after being banished for twenty years?

Perhaps - but Edmure looks more like 35-40 so there's probably a bit of a justifiable lag in the BF's pecreption! :P

Also not sure this fact is in the show...

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Blackfish barely knows his nephew well enough to be so judgemental. Didnt he just return home after being banished for twenty years?

As was pointed out, that's not in the show. If they'd made the point that this was the first time he'd been in Riverrun in 20 years, I don't think those scenes -- particularly the "teeth" scene -- would have worked even on it's own level.

Show BF is different from Book BF so far. Personally, I don't understand the reason for the change, but I don't think it ruins the show or character so I"m not getting bent out of shape about it.

Hey, just had a thought. If they've merged BF with the Greatjon, is there a chance they may have the BF at the RW, but actually have him manage to escape somehow?

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Hey, just had a thought. If they've merged BF with the Greatjon, is there a chance they may have the BF at the RW, but actually have him manage to escape somehow?

Since Clive Russell was announced as one of the main new characters for season 3, I think there is a good chance he will join Robb to the Twins, otherwise his character would almost have no screentime. As long as he somehow manages to escape back to Riverrun, I think it would be a nice change from the books. As basically no other 'loyal' northman has been introduced so far I guess he'll be at the RW. But if he should die, I would be greatly disappointed as I am really looking forward to the Blackfish returning in the coming books

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As was pointed out, that's not in the show. If they'd made the point that this was the first time he'd been in Riverrun in 20 years, I don't think those scenes -- particularly the "teeth" scene -- would have worked even on it's own level.

Show BF is different from Book BF so far. Personally, I don't understand the reason for the change, but I don't think it ruins the show or character so I"m not getting bent out of shape about it.

Hey, just had a thought. If they've merged BF with the Greatjon, is there a chance they may have the BF at the RW, but actually have him manage to escape somehow?

If they do that, then I want them to merge him with the Smalljon, too, and have him hit someone with a leg of lamb before escaping.

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Since Clive Russell was announced as one of the main new characters for season 3, I think there is a good chance he will join Robb to the Twins, otherwise his character would almost have no screentime. As long as he somehow manages to escape back to Riverrun, I think it would be a nice change from the books. As basically no other 'loyal' northman has been introduced so far I guess he'll be at the RW. But if he should die, I would be greatly disappointed as I am really looking forward to the Blackfish returning in the coming books

I must have missed what happened to Show Greatjon, but I think most people are expecting big things from Book Blackfish in the future, and I'd be surprised they would even bother casting him if they intended to kill him off in in two more episodes....so, we might see a badass RW escape for the BF.

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how cute.. another bitching thread...

Well, the thing is here you can tell people to stop being whiners, tell them that "the books are not the show", and argue how show Blackfish is fine, or even better than the book version. If you can't even stand reading any kind of complaint or argument that doesn't praise the show, then I highly recomend you to go here.

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Since Clive Russell was announced as one of the main new characters for season 3, I think there is a good chance he will join Robb to the Twins, otherwise his character would almost have no screentime. As long as he somehow manages to escape back to Riverrun, I think it would be a nice change from the books. As basically no other 'loyal' northman has been introduced so far I guess he'll be at the RW. But if he should die, I would be greatly disappointed as I am really looking forward to the Blackfish returning in the coming books

Well, they're setting him up to be the kind of guy that just might be able to escape a trap at the RW. It's certainly not canon, but I think it would help establish him moving forward, and it doesn't derail the plot otherwise. I know there was some confusion/disinformation about what actually happened, but Blackfish's escape really won't change that. Not many are likely to hear his story, and the Freys will just say that he was the freak who started the whole thing anyway.

I was thinking for a bit that having anyone survive might detract from the horror, but then, there were some folks who survived and were taken prisoner, so I think it would still work.

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how cute.. another bitching thread...

There is room for discussion and criticism concerning all artistic mediums, television, film, paintings, music.

It's not ''bitching'' if people have genuine reasons as to why they are not completely satisfied with certain characters, certain stories, ect.

Your unnecessary comment is more bitter than most of the comments in this thread.

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