Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Azureguy

Jon didn't break his vow?

Recommended Posts

I know this is a stretch, but I was thinking the other day that maybe Jon's relationship with Ygritte didn't TECHNICALLY break his vow. Take a look:

I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory....

The oath vows to take no wife and father no children. Technically, Jon didn't take Ygritte as his wife and he didn't father a child with her either.

Just call me the best lawyer in Westeros :cool4:

While this post is a bit of a stretch, It does make sense. Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats what the officers of the NW say to each other on the way to the brothel in Mole's Town.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edited: The vow did not indeed mention celibacy just not marrying and having a child. I don't know for sure how it works but maybe the "marrying and having a child" part is more applicable to those who are currently single, or if newly recruit but married and/or a father, no more lovey-dovey with the wifey and no more children in the future. Not all who join the watch are boys like Jon, yah know. If that part of the vow strictly applies to all, the person who isn't virgin, still married, and have children before joining already broke it. Not saying also that the members are okay to take a lover as long as they don't marry or have a child - once the vow is taken, their life and honor are pledged to the NW and they no longer belong to themselves (so no seeking of worldly pleasures).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point, but Jon pleaded guilty. Don't know though if he's feeling remorseful for getting laid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats what the officers of the NW say to each other on the way to the brothel in Mole's Town.

Good one. :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

funny, I don;t remember anyone saying he broke his vows for laying with Ygritte. I just remember Janos Slynt calling him a turncloak for killing Qhorin Halfhand and riding with mance rayder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's one of those awkward things where the founders of the nights watch never intended the nights watch to be celibate? I mean I could understand not marrying or fathering children, if you had a family it could jeopardise your willingness to do your duty, but you should be allowed to have a bit of rumpy pumpy! Maybe it was a matter of inconvenience, like originally you were allowed to engage in sexual encounters but there wasn't any females around so no-one did and then people started saying taking the black is like going celibate which then got misconstrued as you have to go celibate to take the black? Or maybe they introduced it after the Night King?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

funny, I don;t remember anyone saying he broke his vows for laying with Ygritte. I just remember Janos Slynt calling him a turncloak for killing Qhorin Halfhand and riding with mance rayder

After talking to

Stannis

, Jon openly admits that he broke his vows by sharing his furs with Ygritte. He qualifies it by saying that the Halfhand told him to do whatever it takes to fit in, but he admits it nonetheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't halfhand state to him that he would need to do whatever was asked of him to sell he is no longer a brother, but as long as he held his vows in his heart he was not an oath-breaker?? Halfhand gave Jon a plausible way to do what was necessary and still maintain his vows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jon was more guilty about the possibility of fathering a bastard. But, as for breaking his vows it's more to do with joining the wildlings(though under orders) and for killing Qhorin.

The people who formulated the oath probably left that loophole on purpose me is thinking XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also Halfhand commanded Jon to do this and so not really breaking vows when a higher ranking officer commands you to do something and the actions would benefit the NW in the long run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point, but Jon pleaded guilty. Don't know though if he's feeling remorseful for getting laid.

I think Jon took it after Jaime Lannister's philosophy: whenever you share your bed, the woman besides you is your wife

that Jaime taught his squire a book later when the squire wanted to sleep with Pia

. By the end of A Storm of Swords, Jon felt a widower, not a man that simply lost a lover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im pretty positive it is not uncommon for the men of the NW to go off and get i tin


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technically, he did not break the vows, since they did not get married; but Mance referred to Ygritte as Jon's "wife" - since official vows and ceremonies don't matter to the free folk as much as to the Westerosi, and in their eyes, Jon and Ygritte were a husband and wife (we would call it common law marriage). I think Jon felt the same way; his relationship with Ygritte was not like going to the brothel or having a one-night stand with some random woman, and he wouldn't compare it to anything like that.



When he confessed to Maester Aemon, Jon said that he did everything on Quorin's orders - which were to do everything to get accepted by the wildlings - but that he still went beyond what he had to do, because, in his own words: "I cared for her". He really did not have any choice but to start sleeping with Ygritte under the circumstances (she was the one who protected him from the others' suspicions, so it was either a relationship with her, or getting killed), but he did fall in love with her, which is why he felt he couldn't say he wasn't guilty because he was just doing his NW duty.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, as far as this logic goes there is nothing in the vows about getting involved with seven kingdoms trouble either. Maybe he hasn't broken any vows at all yet.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't remember where it was said, but I think it was mentioned that If the Night's watch prosecuted every man who went to Mole's Town for a little "relaxation", there wouldn't be much of a Night's Watch left.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jon did take her under the sign of the thief (in her eyes). technically yeah, shed be a (spear)wife. though, thats a term beyond the wall, and isnt acknowledged in the seven kingdoms like the vows of the nights watch are, right? it's not as if they had a ceremony in the sight of the seven. empty sex is a loophole, and without a pregnancy, there ar eno children. thinking jonny boy did alright for himself.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×