Robb the Hypocrite(BOOK SPOILERS)

[Joyful Union]

Which is the "more honourable" choice is entirely a matter of opinion.

Well, if you look at it from the point of what is considered honorable in Westeros, then vows and loyalty to your bannerman are considered more honorable than marrying a girl because you took her virginity. Robb made a vow and he has a responsibility to the Frey's as their King which is more important than protecting the honour of Jeyne. In marrying Jeyne he not only broke his sacred vow, but the contract between Lord and King, and therefore brought greater dishonour upon himself than marrying the Frey girl would have.

[Mammothsbane]

Well, if you look at it from the point of what is considered honorable in Westeros, then vows and loyalty to your bannerman are considered more honorable than marrying a girl because you took her virginity. Robb made a vow and he has a responsibility to the Frey's as their King which is more important than protecting the honour of Jeyne. In marrying Jeyne he not only broke his sacred vow, but the contract between Lord and King, and therefore brought greater dishonour upon himself than marrying the Frey girl would have.

Robb cared about her (Jeyne)'s honor more than his own.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Well, if you look at it from the point of what is considered honorable in Westeros, then vows and loyalty to your bannerman are considered more honorable than marrying a girl because you took her virginity. Robb made a vow and he has a responsibility to the Frey's as their King which is more important than protecting the honour of Jeyne. In marrying Jeyne he not only broke his sacred vow, but the contract between Lord and King, and therefore brought greater dishonour upon himself than marrying the Frey girl would have.

I thought Robb was a fool for doing that in the books. But at least he kept some kind of honor (Jeyne's). He chose Jeyne's honor over his own, and he did it when he was most vulnerable (after Bran's and Rickon's "deaths"). Who did Show!Roob care about other than himself?

[nara]

The show fucked up big time when they changed the reasons Robb broke his vow. But I thought this scene was the most sympathetic Robb has been all season. He seemed to fully acknowledge his guilt, and even agreed that it was completely unfair for Edmure to marry, but it was still essential for their cause. He didn't really berate Edmure IMO. I think Blackfish did that more than Robb.

"You're paying for my sins, uncle. It's not fair or right"- there's a self-realization that Robb has in this scene that I quite liked. He's being honest about his mistakes, and seems to know how unfair it is for others to make sacrifices for him.

agree, agree, agree! Robb in the books behaved stupidly, but his youth and desire to be like his father makes it understandable. In the show, it's a grown man behaving selfishly.

I liked the way he ackowledged Edmure's sacrifice. The most mature thing he's done in the last 2 seasons.

[Mulled Wino]

We knew all this last season. Who would have thought Robb's storyline would get crappier. Why the military brainfarts? Why does he have no supporters (at least till blackfish showed up 5 episodes deep)? When the eff did they Freys leave him?

One could feel for him in the rw in the books, he was a masterful general but made a mess of the management off the field and he had many many supporters. He was feared as the Young Wolf for good reason. Now he's just a dimwit faux king that nowhere near deserves to be king in the north (I dont even knkw if he's king in the riverlands or not.

[Khalessi]

I actually liked the way they portrayed Robb in this scene for a change. He acknowledged it was his fault, and Edmure was paying for his sins. He also didn't force Edmure or personally berate him when he refused. I thought Robb seemed humble in that scene and came off more sympathetic than he had been. The biggest problem I have is that he went to the Frey's for help after personally insulting him. It's really dumb, it's like he learned nothing from sending Theon to his father and having him betray him. However, this is a problem with the books as well. I wish there was somehow a way to do the twist without having Robb appear so dumb.

[Sansa in the North]

I don't actually have a problem with Robb telling Edmure to marry. He did say "you are paying for my sins" and aknowledged his own faults for a change. I have more of a problem with his "fuck the riverlands" line and the way he has been portrayed this season and season 2.

My worst issue is that he kept Cat prisoner, while even refusng to aknowledge that he himself had made a mistake by marrying Talisa. Like others have said, in the books he chose Jayne's honour over his own. It was pretty stupid, but understandable and us readers could sympathise. I have no sympathy left for show Robb. In the books he immediately forgave Cat, because he himself had made a "mistake for love" under the exact same circumstances (finding out about Bran and RIckon). Here, he keeps Cat prisoner and parades Talise around. That looks pretty hypocritical to me.

Plues, yeah, the riverlands have been fighting for you, Robb, so maybe show a bit more concern. I know he abandoned the riverlands in the books, too, but there he had to retake Winterfell and prove that he could still protect his own home, or he was no king at all. No that he is attacking Casterly Rock or whatever, the situation is somehwat different.

Okay.. that's me done whining, I just needed to let that out :laugh:

[Pinkie Baelish]

But Robb has no reason to believe that the Riverlands would go to shit with the Freys ruling Harrenhal. So it wouldn't be much of a big deal. Also, Robb is DESPERATE for an alliance. The Freys are his only hope, so for him to grant them Harrenhal is not that surprising. And I'm sure that Robb would know that Baelish is the current Lord of Harrenhal, so he would be aware that the Freys' claim to it, for the time being, is an empty title.

[zaphodbrx]

But Robb has no reason to believe that the Riverlands would go to shit with the Freys ruling Harrenhal. So it wouldn't be much of a big deal. Also, Robb is DESPERATE for an alliance. The Freys are his only hope, so for him to grant them Harrenhal is not that surprising. And I'm sure that Robb would know that Baelish is the current Lord of Harrenhal, so he would be aware that the Freys' claim to it, for the time being, is an empty title.

It's not the fact that he agreed. It's just how it's shown on the screen ( Not in the north? F*ck it )

Btw regarding hypocrisy. Remember when he berated Edmure for losing 200 men on the stone mill? And then he turns around and loses half his army. Well done Robb!

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Yeah show Robb sucks. But the biggest hypocrite in that scene was the Blackfish, who basically got his nickname for not marrying someone he didn't want to, but in that scene felt like punching his nephew for not being enthusiastic about marrying a random girl.

[pytri993]

Robb is not a hypocrite, he's just -to put it in Cat's words - young. At least in this scene he shows some measure of guilt, which he had remarkably failed to do both in season 2 and season 3 up to this point. As to the reasons for breaking his vows, I too think that book-Robb had brought forth much better reasons to wed Jeyne than TV-Robb.

Furthermore, i find that Brynden has been very demeaned by the way he was portrayed in these last episodes. He's become some sort of clueless enforcer whose task seems to be beating people or threatening to do so. Bah.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Robb is not a hypocrite, he's just -to put it in Cat's words - young. At least in this scene he shows some measure of guilt, which he had remarkably failed to do both in season 2 and season 3 up to this point. As to the reasons for breaking his vows, I too think that book-Robb had brought forth much better reasons to wed Jeyne than TV-Robb.

Furthermore, i find that Brynden has been very demeaned by the way he was portrayed in these last episodes. He's become some sort of clueless enforcer whose task seems to be beating people or threatening to do so. Bah.

So true. All we need is him to look at Robb each time and ask "me smash his face ?" each time.

[KingWolf]

Yeah sorry some reason I thought Robb said Blackfish's lines.

Catlyn's line"Your willing to risk our lives for a chance at a preitter life." However is pretty much what Robb did.

Blackfish also seems found of wanting to beat edmure up."The laws of my fist are about to compel your teeth"

[Sun]

The show fucked up big time when they changed the reasons Robb broke his vow. But I thought this scene was the most sympathetic Robb has been all season. He seemed to fully acknowledge his guilt, and even agreed that it was completely unfair for Edmure to marry, but it was still essential for their cause. He didn't really berate Edmure IMO. I think Blackfish did that more than Robb.

"You're paying for my sins, uncle. It's not fair or right"- there's a self-realization that Robb has in this scene that I quite liked. He's being honest about his mistakes, and seems to know how unfair it is for others to make sacrifices for him.

Agree completely.

[Lady Arwen]

I don't have anything to add to what others have said, but it does feel good to vent a little about how Robb's character has been mutilated in the show. It seems so pointless to make him willingly break his vow to the Freys just to get a hotter wife, then to go and chastise Edmure for not jumping for joy at the thought of marrying one of the Freys. Really, Robb? And where the heck are all his bannermen? He's just coming across as a whiny loser at this point. I try to appreciate the show for what it is and not get too hung up on the show/book discrepancies, but Robb's portrayal is truly egregious, mostly because of its implications on the RW and how people will respond to it. Personally, I have a feeling that Unsullied viewers will feel like, "Meh. He had it coming."