[No Spoilers] EP307 Discussion

[Ran]

Spoiler-free discussion of the show goes here, for those who want to discuss the episode without any reference to the books whatsoever or other spoiler material

This topic should open automatically around the start of airing.

[Groney]

Those two whores (if they are whorers idk) we saw with Theon were imo the prettiest we have seen in the entire show. Extra points for that.

[RedChick]

A decent episode.

Tywin continues to own, like everything, loved the scene between him and Joffrey where Tywin puts Joffrey in his place.

Dany has just been marvelous this season.

Bronn is back! He never falls to make laugh out loud with his perfect witty, honest lines.

At this point I'm just sorta done with the Theon torture storyline; it's just getting ridiculous now. And I really don't care about Robb and that chick (how do spell her name?). Their whole love story just seems so forced.

Jon was actually somewhat interesting in this episode not to mention he was completely right.

Arya and the Hound - so looking forward to this.

Gendry and Mel - not looking forward to this.

[A_man_Is_Happy]

Most boring episode of all seasons. Barring that Bear scene, all else was not entertaining. Rob's wife got really good ass though - attack attack.

[Oleg]

Theon is paying for his treachery very hard.

I haven't read the book so i'm really intrested to see how Dany will handle her next war. I liked how she spoke with delegate - didn't let him take his gold back.

Scene where Jon told Ygritte about their chanses to take Winterfell is good.

Jofree wasn't slapped by Tywin.

[mediterraneo]

...

Jofree wasn't slapped by Tywin.

Best comment so far, seriously!

[Tquinn BC]

I loved the Tywin/Joffery scene. It was interesting to see Joffrey be like.... so about those... dragons

The bear was awesome but we need Direwolves!

[sgtrobo]

non-book reader, really loved both Tywin and Danaerys' attitudes. They exude badass in such different ways.

agree on Theon. We get the point. Let's move on.

I know alot of people seem bored with the Jon Snow/Ygritte storyline but I'm interested.

It's funny being reminded just how naive and sheltered Sansa is/was

[Arrow]

I notice someone mentioned on one of the other threads that non-book readers must want more action - that would explain their overall low ratings for the episode. For my part, I don't mind an episode where the action is minimal or nonexistent - I recognize character development as well as anyone does. I think the low ratings come for the most part from the fact that they tried to shove so much exposition/explanation/setup into one episode, which made it seem rushed and boring at the same time, (quite a trick for the writers).

As a book reader but still lagging behind the current place in the story, and having sought out spoilers on Wiki regarding Theon and a few other details, I am still a little confused about a few things -

1. The BwB is supposedly for the common man, but their morality and ethics seem to be somewhat ... fluid. I have a hard time getting a read on those guys.

2. The wildlings seem to think they're going to conquer lands south of the Wall, but there's only a smallish band of them marching to battle. Are they expecting reinforcements? Do they expect the people of Westeros to join them spontaneously as they march by in their tie-dyed fleece?

3. Margaery is a mystery to me, there's more to that woman than what we see on the surface. She actually thinks she is going to somehow control and manipulate a murderous psychopathic King Joffrey, who may be a monster but who isn't completely stupid. Her most formidible weapon seems to be her overt sexuality, and Joff isn't really into sex for its own sake, he's too twisted to the side of sadism, so they're like ships passing in the night in that regard. (Remember when she said "I want to be THE Queen"?) Joff's already shown us exactly what he thinks of women overall. She and her grandmama seem to have a great big blind spot about him, or she has a very high opinion of her own skillz and wiles, or she's in total denial as to just how dangerous he really is. Something in Olenna's manner and the tone of her skullduggery with Varys makes me think they've got some kind of secret plan for handling Joffrey. Some kind of blackmail strong enough to force Tywin to guarantee Margaery's safety and unrestricted power once she and the Boy Horror are married?

4. Apparently Cersei was slapped down hard enough last week that she didn't raise her head in this episode at all. Good enough. Though I believe that like Wack-A-Mole, she will pop up somewhere else in due time.

5. I. Do. Not. Trust. Talisa.

6. I understand that Dany has to build up her military strength and wealth before she can make a claim on the Iron Throne, which I have no doubt she'll eventually do. Having 3 dragons gives her an advantage, but it's not enough. Obviously she needs massive backup in order to make her move on King's Landing. Duh. I think she's being extremely smart about her war strategies, and her TV character arc has been awe-inspiring.

7. In spite of the fact that he's still a daddy's boy, I think Jaime has grown in strength of character throughout this season, and I have a feeling he's going to be a very changed man when he returns to King's Landing. Will Cersei still have the hold on him that she's had so far? Will his somewhat ambiguous relationship with Brienne throw a wrench into those works? I am so, so curious about that.

8. Osha gave us a reminder of who the real enemy is - the winter that's coming, and the White Walkers who are apparently coming with it.

If they show up in large numbers, nothing else will really matter except the fact that the dragons make fire.

ETA: Must remember there is still some (how much?) Wildfire at King's Landing. That may figure in very importantly when/if the White Walkers get that far south.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Arrow

[Zorral]

The best scene was Brienne's farewell to Jaime. She was terrified. She kept her chin up. She recalled him to her promise to Catelyn and passed the obligation to him, and he agreed. She called him by his name, not as "Kingslayer." She knew what was coming for her, and did not break down. This made Jaime's leap into the pit all the more meaningful, and her hauling him out equally more meaningful. It was a damned great piece of fortune that Jaime's guard-conductor put such a premium on obeying his leader's orders though ....

The next best scene was between Sansa and Margaery. Margaery is a smart, smart, smart woman, who knows the ways of the world, in which her smart, smart, smart family has well-schooled her. It's too bad that with all of Catelyn's clear virtues and her own intelligence, she didn't have that same urbane worldliness that could school her own family. But this kind of worldliness is generally always at odds with those who honestly attempt to enact the commands to be loyal, be good, be honest, help those weaker than yourself, and so on. Both have right on their side as far as their side goes, but neither is enough for ultimate success, perhaps -- which is why Margaery is still playing sister-friend-advisor to Sansa? As far as she keeping Joffrey under control ... there are historical precedents of well-respected / loved wives being able to do so with husbands who then go public with their evil propensities once those they respect -- whose respect they want -- are no longer around. As well, there's her powerful family that the Lannisters need -- and then, there's Tywin.

The dragons are splendid. I wish the camera was on them a bit more. Since so much budget is spent on them it seems odd we see them in such few and fleeting glimpses.

As for one of the other scenes -- as soon as the signal came this was coming, out of the room I went.

[mafalda]

non-book reader, really loved both Tywin and Danaerys' attitudes. They exude badass in such different ways. agree on Theon. We get the point. Let's move on. I know alot of people seem bored with the Jon Snow/Ygritte storyline but I'm interested. It's funny being reminded just how naive and sheltered Sansa is/was

I know. At least she admits she's stupid. I mean the nail hit the coffin when (the Loras marriage was a possibility) she asked Shae if they will let her invite her family to the wedding. Oh, Sansa.

[RedChick]

I notice someone mentioned on one of the other threads that non-book readers must want more action - that would explain their overall low ratings for the episode. For my part, I don't mind an episode where the action is minimal or nonexistent - I recognize character development as well as anyone does. I think the low ratings come for the most part from the fact that they tried to shove so much exposition/explanation/setup into one episode, which made it seem rushed and boring at the same time, (quite a trick for the writers).

That's how I feel, although I don't mind the show giving us some character insight, exposition, etc. Sometimes they seem to cram in too much and it can be borderline soap-operish and repetitive at times (the scene with Tyrion and Shae was downright cringe-worthy IMO).

6. I understand that Dany has to build up her military strength and wealth before she can make a claim on the Iron Throne, which I have no doubt she'll eventually do. Having 3 dragons gives her an advantage, but it's not enough. Obviously she needs massive backup in order to make her move on King's Landing. Duh. I think she's being extremely smart about her war strategies, and her TV character arc has been awe-inspiring.

Although I've been finding Dany badass this season I can't help but wonder if her strategies will come back and bite her in the rear. How will she deal with all these liberated slaves? Will she be able to provide for her armies? Will her dragons be harder to control when they get huge? Stuff like that. (I'm still behind in the books, but I guess I'll get my answers soon enough when I continue reading).

Edited May 14, 2013 by RedChick

[Oleg]

The wildlings seem to think they're going to conquer lands south of the Wall, but there's only a smallish band of them marching to battle. Are they expecting reinforcements?

Only four man climbed the wall in the first place and now there seem to be more of them.

She actually thinks she is going to somehow control and manipulate a murderous psychopathic King Joffrey, who may be a monster but who isn't completely stupid.

I guess she will try to manipulate Joffree by using their children. And, after all, she'll be a queen and people of the realm love her. That doesn't bear alot of power but Margaery will now how to use it.

5. I. Do. Not. Trust. Talisa.

Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is OK with her writing god-knows-what to god-knows-whom - and was even before she got married!

Edited May 14, 2013 by Oleg

[ma_liky]

@Arrow

If I would to quote you it would be far to long post, so I will follow your steps.

I am non-book reader, and I do like episodes with character and story development, but I do like action too. :drunk: These kind of TV shows I love and these kind of books I adore. I didnt start with the books yet, cause I wanted to know if they can pull it together to show so much characters and their stories and follow them from the start to the end. This is quite hard just because there is seven books so far. And to be honest they are doing great so far. I do know that I am looking from one point, of TV, and that they have to change somethings but no TV show had me this convinced. Enough about how great is this show. Lets move on :read: .

Theon - I still didnt go on the wiki to see why is Theon being tortured like that, but I think I am gonna.

1. The BwB - I too, am confused about them. They are supposed to be a bunch of deserters, from all over. Outlaws perhaps, but what confuses me the most is how the hell did Melissandre knew that Gendry was there.

2. As for wildlings thinking they can conquer the North, I too had a smile thinking no no. But then again, look at the larger picture. During this season we have seen their camp and it wasnt small. The question that had started to puzzle me is have they all went over the wall or just some. Cause we are not seeing them doesnt mean they are not there. We havent seen Robb's army, but we know it is there, and Jon doesnt know what has happened with Robb's army, that he is halved and that he is not at the North and that Wintrfell is without Starks. So the wildlings are not far from taking the north.

But how about Jon and Ygritte. :blushing: I mean Jon was blushing when that guy (forgot his name), was saying how to please a woman, he was so red and looking towards Ygritte all the time. And fainting in his arms, "I want to rip up you silk dress" "If you rip my silk dress I'll cut you", or something like that. How beautiful First love is. He is soooooo in love, it hurts. An the kiss, Oh, oh, oh! You no nothing Jon Snow. :blushing:

3. Margaery is a mystery. I do not not know if she knows that Joffery is psychopath. But I think she is very manipulative, and well taught by her family. When she gets a son she will kill him somehow. And Joffery even dough he is a psychopath, he is a very scared kid. She will have a hand over him.

4. Cerasi is so small right now, if she would to show her face she would be laughed at. Ha Ha!

5. You see Talisa is a bigger mystery to me than Margaery. I see nobody likes her, she is just mystery to me at the moment.

6. I agree with you on Dany. She is so so so magnificent this season, she has so grown, she is so confidant, Her war strategy is great, she will take city after city, she will be rootless in that but she has a purpose, free the in slaved. How awesome is that. The people will adore her. And she will not just have an army she will have love, adoration she will be The Queen before she take the Iron Throne, that is a beauty of it. She is inspiring.

And how Joffery looks ridiculous sitting on the Iron Throne, trying to talk with Papa Lannister (love calling him that). Funny! I think that Tywin almost burst into laughter. "We can have you carried." Ha Ha! And then we have a scene with Dany sitting with dragons. Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons!! :bowdown:

7. I have to admit that after this episode my oppinion of Jamie is somewhat changed, But I still think that he has to go a long way for redemption.

8. Yes, that even the ones we love and love us can become Whitewalkers.

In all good episode.

Cheers :cheers:

[Arrow]

1. The BwB - I too, am confused about them. They are supposed to be a bunch of deserters, from all over. Outlaws perhaps, but what confuses me the most is how the hell did Melissandre knew that Gendry was there.

In all good episode.

Cheers :cheers:

Yes, cheers!

I think Melissandre may have "seen" Gendry in the flames? That seems to be her sort of crystal ball where she sees things. Also maybe she has "little birds" like Varys has, who knows, these people are so sneaky! :ninja:

[Arrow]

Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is OK with her writing god-knows-what to god-knows-whom - and was even before she got married!

I know! What's wrong with these people? Spy, spy, spy! Look at the spy!

[Ser Steven]

2. As for wildlings thinking they can conquer the North, I too had a smile thinking no no. But then again, look at the larger picture. During this season we have seen their camp and it wasnt small. The question that had started to puzzle me is have they all went over the wall or just some. Cause we are not seeing them doesnt mean they are not there. We havent seen Robb's army, but we know it is there, and Jon doesnt know what has happened with Robb's army, that he is halved and that he is not at the North and that Wintrfell is without Starks. So the wildlings are not far from taking the north.

But how about Jon and Ygritte. :blushing: I mean Jon was blushing when that guy (forgot his name), was saying how to please a woman, he was so red and looking towards Ygritte all the time. And fainting in his arms, "I want to rip up you silk dress" "If you rip my silk dress I'll cut you", or something like that. How beautiful First love is. He is soooooo in love, it hurts. An the kiss, Oh, oh, oh! You no nothing Jon Snow. :blushing:

No it was not the whole Wilding army. It was just a small chunk of it. A small elite force you could say. Don't remember which episode(3 or 4 I think) it was, but it was the one where Mance says, "we are gonna light the biggest fire the North has ever seen." In that scene you see him telling Tormund to take a group of Wildings to climb the wall and attack Castle Black from the other side.

[ma_liky]

No it was not the whole Wilding army. It was just a small chunk of it. A small elite force you could say. Don't remember which episode(3 or 4 I think) it was, but it was the one where Mance says, "we are gonna light the biggest fire the North has ever seen." In that scene you see him telling Tormund to take a group of Wildings to climb the wall and attack Castle Black from the other side.

Yes I remember now. But still how do they think they will take The Castle Black, only few of them? Didnt Jon say that there is a 1000 Crows?

[Ser Steven]

Yes I remember now. But still how do they think they will take The Castle Black, only few of them? Didnt Jon say that there is a 1000 Crows?

1. Yes he did say there was a 1,000 troops. Whether he is telling the truth, who knows?

2.I think the wilding army has more peopel with them then they have shown. The army was huge when you saw the camp at the end of Season 2

3. This may or may not be considered a spoiler, but to be safe I put the spoiler tags on. It's just the basic jist of what the wildings plan is. I haven't said what will happen just what they plan to do. So if you consider that a spoiler don't look. I myself wouldn't consider it one, but want to be safe.

The wildings plan is not to take over Castle Black, but to hit the NW hard and quick before the NW know they are coming and get to the gate to let Mance and the rest of the Wilding army trough the gate.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Ser Steven

[ma_liky]

1. Yes he did say there was a 1,000 troops. Whether he is telling the truth, who knows?

2.I think the wilding army has more peopel with them then they have shown. The army was huge when you saw the camp at the end of Season 2

3. This may or may not be considered a spoiler, but to be safe I put the spoiler tags on. It's just the basic jist of what the wildings plan is. I haven't said what will happen just what they plan to do. So if you consider that a spoiler don't look. I myself wouldn't consider it one, but want to be safe.

The wildings plan is not to take over Castle Black, but to hit the NW hard and quick before the NW know they are coming and get to the gate to let Mance and the rest of the Wilding army trough the gate.

Ok This is what I was saying, that they have a big army and that it is not impossible for them to take the north with all that is happening in the north.

I do not consider that to be a spoiler but maybe someone does. Well that is a good plan but I dont think Jon will betray NW. I dont know, I am eager to see.

Edited May 16, 2013 by ma_liky