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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP307 Discussion

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Can't Talisa being pregnant support the "Jeyne Westerling being pregnant and running away with the Blackfish" theory? I'm surprised no one has mention that yet. (Or she could be a spy/die :P ) I'm also thinking Bran and Rickon are going to split soon because of Osha (follows the books in a way)

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I forgot about that :frown5:

I believe Robb's will in the books too put a child of his own blood above Jon. Or even if it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the books, i would like to believe thats how Robb phrased his will. Either way, lets hope that Talisa is lying about her pregnancy and that she turns out to be a Lannister spy (taking Sybell Spicer's place). Thats the only way i can see this whole thing play out and leave me reasonably satisfied.

PS- I dont believe in the Jeyne Westerling switch theory, or the secret pregnancy theory.

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I'm glad everyone is finally coming around to Theon's scenes being crap and unnecessary. I have being saying this since the very first episode that he appeared in. But yet even last week it seemed there were more Dreadfort apologists than not. And the most important thing is that it seems like non-book readers have had enough of it, judging by the reactions I've seen. Exit stage left and reappear as Reek when relevant, please.

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Ok, i'm torn and here's why. We have Ygritte and Jon and I finally nailed what ticks me off about her. She uses sex to keep Jon in his place. Every time she's on screen I see Jaime and Cersi. Very annoying and hope she dies horribly.

Then we have Talisa and Rob. I truly hope she's a spy becuase if this is true love and the Red Wedding is True Loves reward well that just sucks. As a sadistic tourture said "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." Yet I do want some happy ending even if it's just a short lived happy ending, must be the romatic in me.

Poor little Arya, glad the Hound is back

Jaime/Brienne - moved to the j/b Thread bittersweet.

Theon, I have to say it's dark really dark and for Bran and party I have nothing.

I did like the face off between Tywin and Joff if that's what we can call it. Joff basically got owned.

loved the Margey - Yes she did you sweet girl - I do almost wish margy would have told sansa that Loras is well not that into her, but why burn the bridge.

Felt bad for Tyrion, and the way the conversation played out, part of me is shocked, was Shay thinking that Tryion would never marry. Jaime's in the kingsguard and not allowed. I know Tyrion is the only male of Tywin line, and I can't see that Tywin would never make him marry someone of his choosing eventually. I was hoping the option of running would be talked about more, because I know the reason he won't is becuase Sansa might just be killed or married to someone that is actually cruel. I'm sure Jaime never would have crossed their minds with both hands, but now that he has one, alas they may be married before jaime gets back poor girl.

Edited by NickyM

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Not a fan of this episode. The "Tyrion's not so bad" scene was ugh. I continue to loathe Shae and can see the "Shae betrays him out of jealousy" plot point coming a mile away. I just don't like how they are whitewashing the characters.

I was so excited to finally see the bear scene and then it just fell flat for me. Mel telling Gendry who his father was...I know this is show and not book but the deviations are not resonating well with me.

Theon scenes are too drawn out and I have to wonder what show only people are thinking at this point. His scenes are painful to watch, but I found the Reek chapters difficult to read too, so maybe they are hitting the right note there. I don't know.

I agree. And i believe it would have resonated more with viewers of the show who haven't read the books if Shae was more like the character from the books. They've already white-washed Tyrion to a large extent, might as well make Shae the bitch and extract more sympathy for Tyrion when the betrayal from her comes. Justifying Shaes actions through feelings of jealousy doesn't quite cut it for me.

And about the Gendry thing, agreed. Long term consequences haven't been considered by D&D? Or have they decided to go ahead with this after considering what they know happens in TWOW and book 7?

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By the way, apparently Jaime will be getting to King's Landing before the Purple Wedding. I don't know if it's any importance...

How do you know? Has it been confirmed?

The main problem with the Bear scene is that it is told from Jaime's PoV. Regardless of how it was done in literature, it would be way more thrilling for the screen to show the whole thing from Brienne's point of view. She is being tortured, she's about to die, she is hopeless. And Jaime had to show up as a sudden turn of events.

Agreed. I liked the scene anyway, but cinematically speaking it would have worked much better from Brienne's POV. Then again they needed to show Jaime deciding to go back. I guess we could have had both if they cut some of Theon's redundant torture.

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The Gendry reveal doesn't really bother me because I always assumed that eventually Gendry will find out in the books.

Brienne almost mistook Gendry for Renly in AFFC, so as Gendry grows up his resemblance to Robert will become even more apparent. Somebody will put 2 and 2 together and tell him what's up. Might even be Jaime since he's headed that way.

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I like Rose Leslie as Ygritte, but I think they're playing too much at her wit. It's starting to annoy me.

And wth is this with Talisa being pregnant? What? I don't like her. I hope she is killed at the RW, but sadly I think not. She has to be a spy, right? I suspected it for some time, but... I'm starting to think she is for real now. Perhaps she's saying she's pregnant - but actually isn't? If she is a spy, she has to know by now that Robb will die?

As always, I love Jaime and Brienne.

Hm... right, I'm usually supportive of the torture scenes, but I'm starting to feel that they are taking too much space now with this episode.

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@ro What if Talisa just gets straight up murdered instead? Satisfying enough?

Not really, because the biggest impact i felt from the whole RW plotline, was knowledge of the betrayal from the Westerlings. Without such a thread in the show, it would ruin my satisfaction from the RW depiction on screen. My personal opinion of course.

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I do make a little more effort to like something GRRM has written. I even make an effort for the eps that feel off - even if someone else wrote them. This is because GRRM is smarter than me and maybe I am missing something. I mean, who knows the story better? And he had a career as a screenwriter. So maybe it's me.

it's good you admitted this..like i said, this is the mindset i cannot stand and i've already covered this. i didn't like the episode, because it's grrm, i expected better, you, on the other hand, have made it clear you will accept less. i don't have a preconceived notion in my brain that just because grrm is a great author, that it would be impossible for him to write something below his standards. honestly was going to make the effort to respond to the rest of what you said but i think this is grounds for dismissal.

there's plenty of time for them to steady things and i'm still enjoying the shit out of the show, i just wish each episode could stand on its own merits more.

Edited by Rubberburner

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it's good you admitted this..like i said, this is the mindset i cannot stand and i've already covered this. i didn't like the episode, because it's grrm, i expected better, you, on the other hand, have made it clear you will accept less. i don't have a preconceived notion in my brain that just because grrm is a great author, that it would be impossible for him to write something below his standards. honestly was going to make the effort to respond to the rest of what you said but i think this is grounds for dismissal.

there's plenty of time for them to steady things and i'm still enjoying the shit out of the show, i just wish each episode could stand on its own merits more.

Hey, whatever, I'm just enjoying myself. I dont mind questioning myself a little - sometimes I learn something. In the ratings thread Ran pointed out that D & D do some scene shuffling and GRRM is a bit more removed from the actual construction of an episode than other writers which might explain some of the dissonance.

FWIW I discovered GRRM when "Sandkings" was published in Omni (a now defunct magazine) I was totally blown away. Everything since then has been gravy.

Edited by rmholt

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Not really, because the biggest impact i felt from the whole RW plotline, was knowledge of the betrayal from the Westerlings. Without such a thread in the show, it would ruin my satisfaction from the RW depiction on screen. My personal opinion of course.

Since Robb n cat died in the books not knowing about the Westerling betrayal. That hateful look Cat gave to Talisa in this episode I wouldn't mind if Robb n cat find out at the RW of her betrayal and cat slits Talisa's throat instead of that simpleton Frey.

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I think they will hold off on revealing Ramsay till Roose Bolton has revealed his treachery or atleast around that time as a buildup to the RW. I just think revealing Ramsay now would be a tip off of some kind of Bolton sketchyness.

There's been a major tipoff to Bolton sketchiness already when Roose decided to send Jaime onwards to KL instead of sending him back to Robb as a loyal bannerman would.

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I know this was GRRM's episode but were all these scenes his? I thought they decided to switch a bunch of scenes around last minute?

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I haven't seen Ran in here bashing every little thing about the show like usual. I wonder why. :dunno:

I find it delicious that the worst episode of the season was penned by GRRM, it makes this weeks forum discussion so bogus.

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