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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP307 Discussion

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Well, Balerion died more like 200 years ago than 300 years ago. And the skulls of the last dragons were the size of mastiff skulls, not small apples. Seems to me something GRRM wouldn't necessarily make a mistake over, what with it being his world, but hey, he's been known to make some mistakes continuity mistakes. ;) It's more the proximity of two of them right after the other. One I could see, two ... well, who knows. I'm hoping to get a few minutes to talk with George at some point, a quick interview about the episode, and maybe he can address if the Tywin-Joff scene was his or not.

Oh, I see. That sounds silly. But am I wrong, or people in the show have alway stated that the last dragon died 300 years earlier? Maybe they changed the whole thing for unknown reasons?

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Holy cow, the dragons are huge now! And they look awesome!

But not a single direwolf in this episode? Come on, Grey Wind has to get some screen time before he gets killed.

Agreed on both accounts!

Personally I don't see why Tywin would put Joffrey in place very directly unless he has to. Tywin should be smart enough to realize that it's better to get the effect you want without directly antagonizing the king and he got every single point across as it was while maintaining the proper respect.

Either way, Tywin's talk was certainly effective. If anything, just him walking up the steps towards Joff put the fear in him =)

Oh sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I've seen so much bending over backwards on this site to defend George this episode that I'm getting kinda frustrated.

No problem.

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It would be weird because they've made it plain that Aegon and his sisters conquered Westeros with their dragons 300 years ago.

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As a guy who hasnt read the books i liked this episode , Especially the tyrion and bear scenes .

As a guy i loved dem naked girls

I have to ask , is that red woman going to fuck that boy or what??. i took a sneak peak i know she will live untill the last book as well as Jaime ... i hope tyrion as well :)

Now some notes

Theon , poor theon , they say man can lose his house , wife , everything in his life .... but if he loses his downstairs pride its GAME OVER !!! .....

Why do i get a feeling Jon is going to team up with pair of wargs 2 crazy woman and a hodor and kick some beyond the wall ass ?

Robb and Joffrey are going to die ...? damn these starks were all happy and together at the beggining and now they all going down , at last episode of the last season i rly hope i get to see atleast 1 stark alive.....

Well i hope i see more and more and it never ends

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Re: Bran's story, you know one thing I miss? I miss the Liddle. It would have been a nice, vaguely mysterious scene to drop into the show, to show that there are northmen who are loyal, who tell them a bit of what's going on further south... and then we can get Jojen's line, "The wolves will come again."

Maybe they can work it into one of the final episodes.

I think like many viewers, the Bran story line is falling a bit flat for me. They've had next to nothing to do, or even talk about, except for Mera/Osha bickering. Jojen is not very intriguing to me at this point. I expect the arrival of Sam/Coldhands to bring a spark to this story line, but I doubt we will see much of that at all in the remainder of this season.

Also, I could absolutely do without Osha for at least a season.

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Anyone wondering if they're going to play the Rains of Castamere during episode 9 at all? I mean, they should. But we had already heard it during the credits of Blackwater (one version) and now the credits of "The Bear and The Maiden Fair" and additionally Thoros was randomly singing it. I would have expected it to be sung during the RW (obviously) and also played during the credits of that episode. But now I'm not sure. It would definitely fit better there I think.

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Re: Bran's story, you know one thing I miss? I miss the Liddle. It would have been a nice, vaguely mysterious scene to drop into the show, to show that there are northmen who are loyal, who tell them a bit of what's going on further south... and then we can get Jojen's line, "The wolves will come again."

Maybe they can work it into one of the final episodes.

Is that the same man ygritte kills because Jon wouldn't?

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It would be weird because they've made it plain that Aegon and his sisters conquered Westeros with their dragons 300 years ago.

As Batman once said, "I'll look into it."

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I have to ask , is that red woman going to fuck that boy or what??

Well, this particularly story line is not in the books, so we can say for certain. Melisandre did say Stannis is now too weak to make any more shadow babies. It has been established that Gendry possesses 'kingly' Baratheon blood. So Melisandre might be using Gendry for more shadow babies, or for another purpose that I won't spoil for you.

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I have to ask , is that red woman going to fuck that boy or what??. i took a sneak peak i know she will live untill the last book as well as Jaime ... i hope tyrion as well :)

Now some notes

Theon , poor theon , they say man can lose his house , wife , everything in his life .... but if he loses his downstairs pride its GAME OVER !!! .....

Why do i get a feeling Jon is going to team up with pair of wargs 2 crazy woman and a hodor and kick some beyond the wall ass ?

HA! We need a thread for only TV viewers to make predictions like this. It'd be awesome!

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Talisa writing letters again. I dont hate her like some fans do, but i feel like she HAS to die. I hope she *is* a honeypot. She replaced Jeyne, but I hope replaces Merrit Frey at the end of Stonehearts noose. Would make a great ending to season 3

OMG YES. I got chills just thinking about that...ESP if she is actually preggers

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Anyone wondering if they're going to play the Rains of Castamere during episode 9 at all? I mean, they should. But we had already heard it during the credits of Blackwater (one version) and now the credits of "The Bear and The Maiden Fair" and additionally Thoros was randomly singing it. I would have expected it to be sung during the RW (obviously) and also played during the credits of that episode. But now I'm not sure. It would definitely fit better there I think.

The 'musicians' played this song during the RW in the books, correct? I suspect they will.

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Have we established which episodes will have which weddings? I though I've read somewhere on here that they were going to do the Purple Wedding this season. Is Tyrion and Sansa in episode 8? I'm pretty sure RW is episode 9. Any insight anyone?

Red wedding this season, purple is next. They are burning through material. I can only imagine how boring season four will be if they go through the purple wedding this season.

My friend said he thought they'd give the purple wedding to end on a high note, but traditionally in this show, Dany is used for the high note and the victory at the end. Hence the last episode being Mhysa.

Edited by Targaryen Tempest

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Late to the party; sick and all.

Anyway, I am going to more free associate than write a more detailed review:

This episode was one of the weaker of the season, though still better than last week’s episode and episode two. Regardless, it had ups and downs etc.

-I thought the best story in the episode as the one they cut down the most, namely Jaime and Brienne’s interaction and story. I thought they made it as lean as they could, but wrecked much of the nuance that the book contained. Though, if you watch what happened two weeks ago, the story holds up just as well.

I thought Jaime came out looking great, and we get that completeness of character that those of us who like Jaime look for. And his last line to Locke was great.

(Note: Though… when he initially jumped into the bear pit I IMMEDIATELY thought about the Anchorman movie and would have thought it spectacular had Jaime yelled out “I immediately regret this decision.” )

*I very much enjoyed Ygritte and Jon, to the point where they are actively outpacing their book-selves, the only pair of characters to do so. I think Ygritte is hysterical because in so many ways she is making fun of the BOOK Jon Snow, a character I never warmed to.

*And apparently Sophia McDougal has finally been shown to be full of shit. If you are unaware about to what I speak, go here and read… 21 pages of posts and materials… I’ll wait http://asoiaf.wester...-critics-speak/

Watching Theon’s latest torture, I thought was gratuitous. Now, yes, as the scene developed, I thought it was, unfortunately for human decency, very well done. When you read the books, part of the gory-ness of Theon’s transformation is that the torture is veiled off; he reveals only a few frightening fragments, but we never see the full horror.

Until now. And here its as terrible as anyone could have imagined. In other words, sometimes the devil we know IS WORSE than the devil we don’t.

At the same time, I found the scene a little… much. Not in and of itself, but in a manner of speaking I think the destruction of Theon Greyjoy is horrible and evil and unbelievable, and could probably have been achieved off-screen. In some ways I find this to be gratuitous. Not empty or vacant of all value, but certainly becoming repetitious – “Gee, I wonder how the Theon scene will end? “ Hey, here’s a hint, he’s getting tortured.

Arya’s scene should have been in last week’s episode.

Holy high fuck I don’t care about Shae. I don’t care about her feelings, etc. All the show is doing by including her and in her silly complaints is it makes me believe less and less that she is actually a prostitute. She is upset over Sansa? At a certain point Tyrion has to say “Ah… have you … just asking m’lady… but have you ever been around noble people before? I mean, its okay if the answer is ‘no’ but you have to understand how really ridiculous it would be for me to refuse Sansa as my wife given that AT LEAST one person in my family has already tried to kill me.”

And she keeps calling herself Shae the Funny Whore which I can’t tell anymore is ironic or insipid. God I want the end of Season 4 to get here so fast…

Now, Robb and Charlie Chaplin’s great-granddaughter (look it up) – its one good thing and one bad thing rolled into one. The good thing is that we need to show that Robb’s affection to this woman is pure and good and true because, well, because very soon we won’t have a lot of time with Robb so …

But on the other hand, we all can agree now that she’s a spy, right? And if that’s so there is no real subtlety or nuance to this plot as there was in the books, so much so that this plot is becoming not an “alternate universe” of the books, but a poor caricature of the book. How did this plan get set up so “before the fact?” How did nobody see it coming? How did they get messages to her? How was this plan hatched so quickly? I mean… it all just seems ham-fisted and not well thought out.

I think that the Osha scenes are not terrible because basically they are setting her up to kidnap Rickon and flee. That’s actually not a terrible idea. (and given the title of next week’s episode …)

I am now bored by the Sansa scenes. Not because of Sansa. In the books, the wedding was dropped right on her. It was immediate and she had no time to do or contemplate anything. Here- its being talked to death like a PowerPoint presentation. I would have preferred immediacy to this slow-grind.

(Note: Its gotten so bad that I just now imagine they are talking about something else. Given Sophie Turner’s height I merely imagine that Maegery is trying to draft Sansa as a power-forward for the first All-Women’s Westosi Basketball Team).

Now, to me, I thought that as a complete episode this one felt more empty; I know we are all drawing to a HUGE conclusion, but at the same time, we had three AMAZING episodes in a row (Walk of Punishment, And Now His Watch Has Ended, Kissed by Fire) only to be followed by two rather bland ones. Sure, there were good things in each episode, but they had the unnatural flavor of filler. I thought that the show was raising itself to a new standard, but maybe it was just three strong episodes in a row.

The other unkind thing to swallow was that Martin wrote the episode. Considering her wrote The Pointy End and Blackwater this is easily his weakest episode.

I trust the episodes will pick up but they should do more than “Wait for The Big Episodes” to carry the show’s reputation.

Edited by Rockroi

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Theon is the Gollum of the series. Have to see his transformation. From what we know, this was his second to last scene. Probably the only thing we see of Theon left will be the Ramsay reveal. Next season he will start the path down truly becoming Ramsay's creature.

Assuming Theon has a significant part left to play in the books (and I believe he does), I simply don't see any way to can possibly cut out a significant amount of his torture. Reek is unrecognizable as Theon.

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Azad_Injejikian, on Yesterday, 09:18 PM, said:

Talisa writing letters again. I dont hate her like some fans do, but i feel like she HAS to die. I hope she *is* a honeypot. She replaced Jeyne, but I hope replaces Merrit Frey at the end of Stonehearts noose. Would make a great ending to season 3

Would be awesome. I can see this making sense as well where Talisa confesses to Cat who she really is right before/during/after everyone around her is getting murdered.

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George wrote "The Pointy End" -- D&D wrote "Baelor". That said, "The Pointy End" was really good as well; the only real sore spot I recall was Arya's killing of the stable boy, and that was due to their literally having 10 minutes to film between downpours.

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Either way, Tywin's talk was certainly effective. If anything, just him walking up the steps towards Joff put the fear in him =)

Yes, although I think that came even earlier. You wrote in another post that you thought Joffrey looked smug on the throne but I think he looked nervous the moment Tywin enters the throne room and you also hear insecurity in his voice, although he's trying to keep appearances up. Perhaps the difference in our perceptions there is the reason we saw the scene a bit differently overall?

Edited by Tywin's bastard

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Oh sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I've seen so much bending over backwards on this site to defend George this episode that I'm getting kinda frustrated.

I haven't see any of this "bending over backwards". The general consensus is that the episode was mostly uneventful, which is not because of GRRM; all he does is write what they give him.

Edited by PatrickStormborn

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