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Zar Lannister

Margaery's Words of Wisdom [Spoilers]

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Meh.

But considering that the Margaery from the TV show is 180° de opposite she's supposed to be, it suits her giving her the "words of wisdom" she told Sansa.

You think so? You didn't get the impressing that Margaery was a little *too* perfect in the books? A little too sweet? I was 50/50 on her throughout my reading, unsure if there was something sinister going on or if Cersei's paranoia was just seeping into my head. Then again, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

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I love the reveal about the "state" of Margaery's maidenhead because this casts a shadow of doubt on MUCH of Cersei's POV chapters in AFFC. Most of us assumed that Cersei was just acting like an insane, delusional and jealous bitch towards Margaery which she most certainly WAS. But perhaps Cersei was right in her suspicions of Margaery just like she was right in her suspicions of House Tyrell's long-game designs on power.

Of course! Not trusting the Tyrells is the one smart thing Cersei did and if there's one good thing she did it's actually opposing these bastards, seriously, like Dontos said, they're nothing more than Lannisters with roses, equally bad, just with a better PR department and more glitter and glamour that make the stupid common folk think they're all innocent roses. For one thing, the people in King's Landing all completely forgot the Tyrells were coming to take the city themselves, and even starving it out, prior to their 'rescue' of the city.

I never had any doubt Margaery was definitely not a virgin, she is a little bitch who may have been sleeping around everywhere and show Renly may have almost made us forget that book Renly was certainly capable of consummating their marriage (as told to Cersei by Merryweather*). It is dumb however that she would allude to this herself in the show.

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I love show!Margaery a lot more than book!Margaery because we're getting so much more of her character (and she's also so much ~sweeter to Sansa :love: )

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Loved the scene. "Yes, my sweet girl, my mother taught me."

Same here ... that pitying look she gave her - priceless!

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This. Considering who wrote the episode, I think that comment was the high point of the scene.

hmm yeah well I remember reading that a lot of the scenes from this episode got jumbled around, not all scenes this wk were written by GRRM and some next week will be, like what ever happens in the storm which this episode was meant to be named for (which I think might be the Queens Crown scene- which I will just die of its done wrong)

Most likely because TV viewer have a shorter attention span than book reader. Images are more important and with months between seasons it's easier. Like with LotR, in the books you had no idea what the Ring was, it had unfold slowly but in the movies: Bam! Prologue with explanation

BTW: Am I the only one who thinks that Marg wants Tyrion? New TV subplot: Marg/Tyrion afair! (So they can produce nudity)

HAR!

You think so? You didn't get the impressing that Margaery was a little *too* perfect in the books? A little too sweet? I was 50/50 on her throughout my reading, unsure if there was something sinister going on or if Cersei's paranoia was just seeping into my head. Then again, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

yeah I kinda always felt that

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Loved the scene. "Yes, my sweet girl, my mother taught me."

Lords of Winterfell? Didn't even faze me...I guess I was thinking the way that Tywin did when he told Tyrion and Cersei who they were to marry and why. Kind of like who gets what places in a chess game. Completely forgot about Robb still being alive and the other implications.

I'm pretty sure both Margaery and Sansa acknowledge the fact that Robb might not survive the war, and since Robb was the only one who knows about Talisa's present condition, Sansa remains his heir.

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Thoughts on Margaery and Sansa doing the talk about the birds and the bees... But more specifically: Why is Margaery telling Sansa her children will be Lords of Winterfell?

She isn't. The line is: "your son might be the Lord of Casterly Rock and the North some day". Which is correct. If Robb dies childless, and Bran and Rickon don't come back from the dead, she's the next in line.

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I think it would have been nicer if they emphasised that 1) Tyrion will never be Lord of Casterly Rock because Tywin already told him so; 2) For Sansa's son to be Lord of Winterfell Robb would have to die; 3) and it would mean a Lannister would be Lord of Winterfell.

It would really make viewers understand why this marriage is so bad for Sansa.

2 &3 could have been stressed with no problem in the Sansa/Margaery dialogue, instead of pointing out the myriad ways Tyrion is the greatest catch in Westeros. 1 could have been brought up in the Tyrion/Bronn scene. It would have fit very well.

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I think it would have been nicer if they emphasised that 1) Tyrion will never be Lord of Casterly Rock because Tywin already told him so; 2) For Sansa's son to be Lord of Winterfell Robb would have to die; 3) and it would mean a Lannister would be Lord of Winterfell.

It would really make viewers understand why this marriage is so bad for Sansa.

2 &3 could have been stressed with no problem in the Sansa/Margaery dialogue, instead of pointing out the myriad ways Tyrion is the greatest catch in Westeros. 1 could have been brought up in the Tyrion/Bronn scene. It would have fit very well.

Nobody except the Lannister really know on what level Tywin despises Tyrion. Nobody has a clue Tywin doesn't want him to be Lord of Casterly Rock. And IMO the scene is more about Margaery comforting Sansa, like Garlan did in the books. Futher more it was more about Margaery instead of Sansa.

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Nobody except the Lannister really know on what level Tywin despises Tyrion. Nobody has a clue Tywin doesn't want him to be Lord of Casterly Rock. And IMO the scene is more about Margaery comforting Sansa, like Garlan did in the books. Futher more it was more about Margaery instead of Sansa.

That's why I said Tyrion could have mentioned it in his scene with Bronn. Or Shae.

Margaery shouldn't be trying to comfort Sansa, if they cut Garlan they might as well have cut that line since it made no sense anymore. And how was that scene more about Margaery? The entire dialogue was about the marriage of Sansa to Tyrion, clearly they were the focus.

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That's why I said Tyrion could have mentioned it in his scene with Bronn. Or Shae.

Margaery shouldn't be trying to comfort Sansa, if they cut Garlan they might as well have cut that line since it made no sense anymore. And how was that scene more about Margaery? The entire dialogue was about the marriage of Sansa to Tyrion, clearly they were the focus.

BUt why should he discuss with Bronn what he already knows not to mention that Tywin clearly said Winterfell for him

Wait. I try to argue logical for the TV show sorry, just forget it

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Surprised Sansa didn't protest that comment, or maybe she's too naive to understand the implication of it? Either way, I suppose it's possible if Sansa is the last remaining Stark in the entire bloodline.

Not once has Sansa said anything about the fact she was 4th in line. Even if she has accepted that Robb will lose or be stripped of his lands and titles for rebelling and isn't being considered as the heir - not once has she asked about her two little brothers who are 2nd and 3rd in line. She's more concerned about sleeping with a dwarf. They're making her out to be a shallow little girl still which bothers me because in the book at this point Sansa was being devastated left and right about the loss of her brothers then her mother. Two episodes ago she was asking if her family would be allowed to come to her wedding. They're not being consistant with her at all.

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Not once has Sansa said anything about the fact she was 4th in line. Even if she has accepted that Robb will lose or be stripped of his lands and titles for rebelling and isn't being considered as the heir - not once has she asked about her two little brothers who are 2nd and 3rd in line.

Hasn't she yet been told about their death? That should be common knowledge in the entire realm by now.

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Hasn't she yet been told about their death? That should be common knowledge in the entire realm by now.

'

They haven't shown anyone finding out except Robb/Cat assuming they're missing (but Cat is convinced they're dead) and then Tywin tells Tyrion and Cersei. No one has told Sansa. But then she hasn't once asked.

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That's why I said Tyrion could have mentioned it in his scene with Bronn. Or Shae.

Margaery shouldn't be trying to comfort Sansa, if they cut Garlan they might as well have cut that line since it made no sense anymore. And how was that scene more about Margaery? The entire dialogue was about the marriage of Sansa to Tyrion, clearly they were the focus.

The dialogue is all about Sansa's impending marriage, but I really think the focus was on Margaery, both her words and the way she delivered them. It's a really nice move in literature and screenplay - focusing on a character by watching them focus on another.

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'

They haven't shown anyone finding out except Robb/Cat assuming they're missing (but Cat is convinced they're dead) and then Tywin tells Tyrion and Cersei. No one has told Sansa. But then she hasn't once asked.

We often haven't seen characters' reactions in the books either when it comes to this kind of stuff, so it doesn't mean much, IMO.

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Margaery Tyrell, I would so love to get a piece of that! Damn it Robb, if you were going to fall in love why not with her? For once, Catlyn had the right of it, adding Highgarden to your fold, and marrying a total hottie, would have left old Walder too afraid to pull his stunt.

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Not once has Sansa said anything about the fact she was 4th in line. Even if she has accepted that Robb will lose or be stripped of his lands and titles for rebelling and isn't being considered as the heir - not once has she asked about her two little brothers who are 2nd and 3rd in line. She's more concerned about sleeping with a dwarf. They're making her out to be a shallow little girl still which bothers me because in the book at this point Sansa was being devastated left and right about the loss of her brothers then her mother. Two episodes ago she was asking if her family would be allowed to come to her wedding. They're not being consistant with her at all.

Sansa's not so much shallow as naive/idealistic. I don't think her reaction to Tyrion is all that shallow. She's not stoked about sleeping with him because she finds him super ugly, true, but I think every human being has that mindset and Sansa's just not quite mature enough to take the long view. Her main beef with Tyrion in the books is that she feels like she can't trust him at all, not even revealing the slightest emotion to him, because of her experiences with Joff and Cercei. This gets lost in the show somewhat because, since Sansa's able to have so many significant heart-to-heart convos with Margary her character isn't as isolated as she is in the books. Basically, season 3 Sansa doesn't come across as being in a very bad situation at all. Joff hasn't bothered her lately, Cercei's ignored her, and most of her interactions have been with Shea or the sympathetic (to Sansa, seemingly) Tyrells.

But I think the main thing Show!Sansa suffers from is that her character is not really changed from the 13-year-old book version, but the actress is clearly 16/17 so when she makes immature/naive decisions and conclusions it comes off way worse.

Edit: Plus, so much of Book!Sansa is her thoughts, and obviously we don't get any of that in the show. I don't think she wonders aloud about her family members in the book.

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She's not stoked about sleeping with him because she finds him super ugly, true, but I think every human being has that mindset and Sansa's just not quite mature enough to take the long view.

I don't recall Tyrion or any of the other adults frequenting ugly prostitutes/wives, either.

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