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Zar Lannister

Margaery's Words of Wisdom [Spoilers]

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Yes book Shae is just a smart whore, remember when she suggest she and Tyrion should do it besides Sansa when she is asleep.

But I doubt book Tyrion was in love with her. Tyrion carves for affection like a man craves water in the desert. He pays her not to be his whore he pays her to pretend to be his girlfriend, he tries to block out what she is but never forgets it. He even gets mad when she broke the charater and slaps her. Tyrion likes the illusion and thinks the same time he is loved. He even admitts that he had done it before. He states that if he has a whore for longer he is monogamous.

And I agree with Joffrey in the book he is sadistic too but also much more depending on his mother and has no balls. Show Joffrey is ignorant and has a dangerous combination of ego, poor judgment and autonomy

If that were true, he would take the affection offered to him by Lady Tanda of her daughter Lollys, instead he rejects the notion, becuase he's a hypocrite; he's a Lannister, and he can complain that he's too ugly for beautiful women to love him and then... he acts the same way toward Lollys! and later Penny!

He doesn't crave affection, he wants the love, lust and admiration of a *beautiful* woman, that's why he'd rather unhapilly pay a terrible human being of a whore, and ignore her obviously repulsive traits, one among many being that she doesn't love him at all , than possibly have a happy marriage with a simple-minded, fat woman, who wouldn't hurt a fly.

In the end Bronn (of all people) choses the safety of becoming Lord Stokeworth, and possibly even be happy with his simple-minded wife, over Tyrion... don't go chasing waterfalls T! loll

Saint Tyrion really isn't all that great...

ETA: I also honestly don't understand your first sentence: Why does Shae suggesting to have sex with T. while Sansa is asleep make her a smart whore???

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Even with nicer, hotter Tyrion, I get why Sansa is freaked out. She's being bound to this family that ruined hers, even if he's the nicest of the bunch. He's not a Hand anymore; he has no real authority beyond his family name.

Plus, there's sex/"childbearing activities" she has been told her whole life she is honor-bound to give, no choice in the matter. Sure she's not attracted to Tyrion, but it's not just that. It's knowing she will be at someone's mercy, especially when every other time she's been at someone's mercy (besides the Hound), she's been beaten, humiliated, or almost raped. Loras at least has very gentle, feminine looks -- it's easier for a young girl to imagine a softer experience with someone like that. I mean, why were so many girls crushing on Jareth despite his cruelty? He's fey and delicate looking.

THAT said, there is no guarantee their relationship will be exactly like in the books, except for her maintaining her virginity (seems to me like too big a plot point). I would prefer sticking to the spirit of the novels, but it's possible she will get along with him better. Not love or marital bliss, but not total misery. She'll soon hear her mother and brother are dead...she has plenty of reasons to be sad. It would be reflective of her growing maturity, since we can't get inside her head. Wouldn't prefer this, but it's a possibility.

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I HATED THE STUPID WHITE WASHING OF TYRION AND MARG LIKE ''AWW SANSA HE AINT SO BAD'' FUCK THAT.

There is going to be no sadness or drama to their Wedding now, is there? People will think Sansa is a petulant girl for not liking Tyrion.

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I'm glad that they wrote Sansa in like that. How hypocritical are show viewers being. In the real world people are way more judgemental then Sansa was. Give me a break over all this fake consternation.

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I did not like the fact that Marges remark about her sons inheriting Winterfell went completely over her head. Her brother would have to die childless. Has she even heard about what supposedly happened to Bran and Rickon? She does not even spare a thought for Arya, why not ask her new BFF, Margery, to see if her family can find her or what happened to her? Why not ask Margery to see if she could send a letter to her family telling them she is all right or whatever?

On a certian level this conversation made sense. Marge feels some sympathy for Sansa, feels she might be important down the road, so she gives her what wisdom she has about being a highborn girl being forced to marry for political reasons.

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I HATED THE STUPID WHITE WASHING OF TYRION AND MARG LIKE ''AWW SANSA HE AINT SO BAD'' FUCK THAT.

There is going to be no sadness or drama to their Wedding now, is there? People will think Sansa is a petulant girl for not liking Tyrion.

Since they removed garlan who said that in the books, Margery takes up the lines.

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Liked the tacit confirmation that Marg is, indeed, a veteran when it comes to a romp in the sack. Puts to rest some of the Marg maidenhead controversy.

It puts nothing to rest because show canon is not book canon. Book Marg can be a virgin.

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THAT said, there is no guarantee their relationship will be exactly like in the books, except for her maintaining her virginity (seems to me like too big a plot point). I would prefer sticking to the spirit of the novels, but it's possible she will get along with him better. Not love or marital bliss, but not total misery. She'll soon hear her mother and brother are dead...she has plenty of reasons to be sad. It would be reflective of her growing maturity, since we can't get inside her head. Wouldn't prefer this, but it's a possibility.

I'd like to see how that is played. Personally, I think I would prefer them having their awkward marital miserable meals. Since that prolongued misery at least gives Sansa reason to flee with LF later.

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Has nothing to do with GRRM. The show's vision of Margaery Tyrell is very different from that in the novel, he just writes what they tell him to write, and I would not read anything at all into these Margaery scenes vis-a-vis the novel.

they really tell him what to write? like a general idea...?

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Just a thougt but does anyone think there will be a second Margaery Sansa "talk" after the wedding?

Something like: "So he didn't bed you? I am sorry you have missed it but see I was right he isn't so bad"

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Just a thougt but does anyone think there will be a second Margaery Sansa "talk" after the wedding?

Something like: "So he didn't bed you? I am sorry you have missed it but see I was right he isn't so bad"

Lets hope not, but I could the show runners going with the idea that Tyrion is great human being because he declined to rape an abused child like many unpleasant Tyrion fanboys/girls on the internet.

I think they coud fit together if they overcome the obstacles both have. (I once said Sansa must see that Tyrion isn't her enemy and someone must kick Tyrion in the ass to try harder)

So what is it that Tyrion is sacrificing to make this marriage work? Because, it seems Sansa has to give up a lot more if this is meant to work.

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Lets hope not, but I could the show runners going with the idea that Tyrion is great human being because he declined to rape an abused child like many unpleasant Tyrion fanboys/girls on the internet.

So what is it that Tyrion is sacrificing to make this marriage work? Because, it seems Sansa has to give up a lot more if this is meant to work.

I actually think Tyrion would have to give up more. He must change his behaviour. But first his view on the marriage he acknowledge that Sansa is forced in it yes but he sees himself as a victim as well. As a victim of his father and Sansa's feelings, that would have to change. As well as he (actually should do some of the stuff Tywin said) can't take all for granted. And he must defer to the marriage. Like when he hears Sansa cry not backing up doing something. He has to change his attitude not to mention the whoring, kiling of bards etc.

But I won't deny that Sansa would have to change as well

Again that the marriage will stand in the end of the story is just my personal interpretation but I will stick with it

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I actually think Tyrion would have to give up more. He must change his behaviour. But first his view on the marriage he acknowledge that Sansa is forced in it yes but he sees himself as a victim as well. As a victim of his father and Sansa's feelings, that would have to change. As well as he (actually should do some of the stuff Tywin said) can't take all for granted. And he must defer to the marriage. Like when he hears Sansa cry not backing up doing something. He has to change his attitude not to mention the whoring, kiling of bards etc.

But I won't deny that Sansa would have to change as well

Again that the marriage will stand in the end of the story is just my personal interpretation but I will stick with it

I don't see how not murdering people and realizing your partner has feelings is a sacrifice, that seems like common basic human decency.

Seriously, that is one of the main reasons I dislike this coupling as how it seems the shared sacrifice is Tyrion acts with a common sense of morality while Sansa must accept marrying into a family she rightfully despises and the ugliest man in the series and etc.

Simply, it does seem like any fair interchange of the two coming together. Maybe, if there were previous hints of slight attraction and not complete revulsion and pity towards him by Sansa it might be different but there isn't.

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I don't see how not murdering people and realizing your partner has feelings is a sacrifice, that seems like common basic human decency.

Seriously, that is one of the main reasons I dislike this coupling as how it seems the shared sacrifice is Tyrion acts with a common sense of morality while Sansa must accept marrying into a family she rightfully despises and the ugliest man in the series and etc.

Simply, it does seem like any fair interchange of the two coming together. Maybe, if there were previous hints of slight attraction and not complete revulsion and pity towards him by Sansa it might be different but there isn't.

But only in book 3 after that it's only about if they comming back together and for that there are "hints of attrection"

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But only in book 3 after that it's only about if they coming back together and for that there are "hints of attraction"

Not really, she thinks he was kind and nothing better then that, And even then she qualifies that by comparison to Joffrey and Cersei so that doesn't speak that well of his "kindness."

For example, I can handle SanSan in how there seems to be stuff ever since they meet where they both interconnect and start caring for each other. Which, then moves into her actually romantically/sexually fantasizing about him thus there seems to be at least some attraction no matter how weird and awkward. (I am not arguing that I definitely want SanSan but more that I understand it)

Yet, none of that is present in Sansa/Tyrion instead she always is miserable around him and almost notes how he is the ugliest man she has ever seen. Thus, they neither have chemistry nor is there any physical attraction on her part toward Tyrion.

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THAT said, there is no guarantee their relationship will be exactly like in the books, except for her maintaining her virginity (seems to me like too big a plot point). I would prefer sticking to the spirit of the novels, but it's possible she will get along with him better.

Of course she will get along with him better, everyone loves Saint Tyrion, even Cersei lately is nice to him.

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I'm very intrigued by Marg admitting she's been around the block. It was never made clear at all in the books, and it's hard to tell if this is simply another invented facet of show!Marg or whether we're being given canon information. Unless GRRM himself says that it's canon I'm assuming it's only show canon, though. I enjoy Margaery in the books and on the show, and I really enjoyed the scene.

I can't explain the comment she made about Sansa's sons, though. I chalked it up to an error in the script but I really don't know.

I have to admit, I chuckled and thought of the forum when Marg said Tyrion was handsome. Must they insist on buffing out Tyrions every flaw? I like Tyrion in the books, he's one of my favourite POV characters, but that's because he's such a grey character. Show!Tyrion is as pure as the driven snow.

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Of course she will get along with him better, everyone loves Saint Tyrion, even Cersei lately is nice to him.

Ugh.

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This is material they have made up when they aged up Margaery and decided a sexually-experienced Anne Boelyn-alike was just the ticket.

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I didn't think I would like Natalie as Marg but I do, I like that we're seeing how the Tyrells manage to get what they want mostly through political manipulation instead of killing people, I thought this aspect was not brought enough to the forefront in the books.

But, like a lot of things, the show takes it one step too far, with now alluding to Marg's sexual experience, that was unnecessary and will certainly complicate things down the road when she's accused of adultery.

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