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AzorAhai42

[TV and Book Spoilers] Poor Theon

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It looks like the castration theories were right. I'm guessing since GRRM wrote this episode, it's like he's saying... "Yeah, Ramsay castrates Theon."

I know it's heavily hinted at in Dance, but it never flat out says that Theon was castrated.

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I kind of hoped he wouldn't be gelded in the show. For some reason, genital mutilation seems to disturb me far more than any other form of torture.

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Yeah, I don't know why, but that scene just really depressed me. I feel so very bad for Theon right now. I already felt bad for him, and the funny thing is, I'll probably feel even worse for him in episode 10. I think the Ramsay/Theon(Reek) scenes have been getting progressively worse, and I think they are going to continue to do so.

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I know it's heavily hinted at in Dance, but it never flat out says that Theon was castrated.

Saying Theon castration was a theory is like saying that Renly being gay is a theory, or Mel sleeping with Stannis or Ned Stark being dead.

Theon is not ever going to "flat out state" that he was castrated to anyone. I'm pretty sure in every Theon chapter there's at least one reference to it.

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To be honest, the scene could have been done a bit better. I thought the nudity lingered on a bit too much, and they definitely could have amped up the horror of it all, like Joff's scene with the whores or the Harrenhal rat torture. This is really minor nitpicking, but did Ramsay actually come off as a bit of a ladies' man? Unless, of course, he was mentally flaying the two women's corpses when he was copping a feel.

But what a great trick by Ramsay- make Theon feel like a man again, for the first time since his capture, only to bring him down and emasculate him in the most devastating way possible. And I think Theon is already in the early stages of Reek, judging by his reaction to Ramsay entering the room.

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I think they're probably making those women appear to be willing accomplices so Ramsay can do something horrible to them and cement his position as The Worst Person. Most of my friends ascribed a lot more importance to them than we know there is, so something tells me they could pull a real shocker if something like that happens.

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As awful as this sounds, if the show is truly going to do Ramsay's character justice which it seems they're doing, then those two girls should be seen flayed and hanging up on the walls by the next episode...

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As for poor Theon, I don't feel sorry for him. He's getting what he deserves, he brought it on himself.

But showing his torture should really enforce his redemption arch for the naysayers who didn't buy it in ADWD

For me it was always obvious Theon was castrated. "WE DO NOT SOW".... For Theon, it is literal

You're a terrible person.

But you're in good company because I can't stop laughing.

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I guess we can now assume that Theon will never take his rightful place on the Seastone Chair. I highly doubt the Ironborn will want a "King without a scepter". We can also assume that this will mean the end of the senior Greyjoy line. The only hope for House Greyjoy to continue will have to be through Euron or VIctarion unless Asha can circumvent the dynastic laws and have her future son take up the Greyjoy name.

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Ugh, I knew it was coming from the beginning of the scene with the whores first appearing. I always thought it was crystal clear in the books that Theon's "manhood" was mutilated or destroyed in a literal way, it just was never quite as fully spelled out as the show made it. Given that GRRM wrote this episode I hope the pointless debate over this can be put to bed.

Also I have to say that I got nauseous from my own mental image right after the scene ended. I'm not that squeamish when I'm watching a show or movie because when I know its fake (prosthetic effects, CG or w/e) it just doesn't get to me, but with the knife and the setup I got a clear mental image of what would really happen if you did that to someone (or ugh, me) and I felt nauseous for about 10 mins after. Didn't help I had ate dinner only 20 mins before. Seriously though fellas, if you think Theon "got what was coming" actually picture "what was coming" for a minute. Not an image that is close to justice any way around. If it was Robb taking Theon head with his two own hands, well that's different entirely.

Btw I do not buy all this karma nonsense about this whole thing. Now he did literally help create the destabilization in the north that lead to his capture and torture, but I don't buy the "Welp he had it coming thanks for solving the problem, universe!" notion is and has been going on about Theon's torture.

It's a silly childish notion and even more ridiculous in the books where the person responsible to Theon's torture and mutilation is the very person who encouraged and aided the crimes of Theon to begin with. Certainly there is a neat parallel to old stories of demons or devils first encouraging and aiding people to commit horrible acts and sins, then delighting in punishing them for it later; but that is not close to any notion of true justice or karma in a way that has any relation to real life.

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I thought this was kind of poor. Perhaps it was just the poor speakers on my tv that made is sound so...bland.

I agree with someone above who said that the nudity lingered a bit much. I think that scene probably confirmed people's worst opinions about GoT. Over the top violence and over the top nudity. I've no issues with either, personally, but for a little while that scene seemed like the show making a caricature of itself.

And frankly, I thought it was interesting of them to show what was effectively a woman/women on man rape, and the fallout from that (or lack thereof) ought to be interesting.

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Seriously, this. Torture isn't justice in any circumstances, especially not when the "justicar" is someone like Ramsay.

Yikes @ the people who are absolutely without pity at the idea of a man getting systematically broken.

Double/triple/quadruple yikes @ the people salivating over the torture, whether they think he deserves it or not.

Transitioning away before we saw what exactly happened was far more effective because, as mentioned, if you have any imagination at all, what you see in your mind is probably far more terrible than a bit of foam rubber and fake blood or whatever else they could come up with. I'm definitely glad some of you guys aren't involved with the show, I'll say that much. :lol:

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I guess we can now assume that Theon will never take his rightful place on the Seastone Chair. I highly doubt the Ironborn will want a "King without a scepter". We can also assume that this will mean the end of the senior Greyjoy line. The only hope for House Greyjoy to continue will have to be through Euron or VIctarion unless Asha can circumvent the dynastic laws and have her future son take up the Greyjoy name.

Sheesh, what a thought. I don't particularly want Euron or Vic to survive the story. Don't think I'd be sad to see the end of House Greyjoy.

But yeah, I feel gutted for Theon right now.

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I guess we can now assume that Theon will never take his rightful place on the Seastone Chair. I highly doubt the Ironborn will want a "King without a scepter". We can also assume that this will mean the end of the senior Greyjoy line. The only hope for House Greyjoy to continue will have to be through Euron or VIctarion unless Asha can circumvent the dynastic laws and have her future son take up the Greyjoy name.

I'm not sure if it would matter overmuch, as long as it doesn't become pubic knowledge. Theon would certainly want to keep such junk under wraps.

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I can't see Theon being a ruler of anything at this point. His body, mind, soul and reputation have all been shattered.

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