[TV and Book Spoilers] Poor Theon

[PhoenixFlame]

Asha can take over but Theon will be her second. His traumatic experience will usher in a new call for reform in the Iron Islands.

On a less cheeky note, I think Theon will run into Ramsay again. Not necessarily in a bad context. Makes some narrative sense.

[The Drunkard]

Felt bad for Theon, but the scene dragged on for a bit. I suppose the TnA quota needs to be filled...

[Pinkie Baelish]

To be honest, I'm hoping this is the last we've seen of Theon's torture. His scenes have become fairly redundant, and the fan response has been mixed as well. I think the castration was the only bit of Theon's torture which they needed to show visually, the rest of it(missing fingers, toes and teeth) can all be revealed when Reek is shown on camera without having to show them actually being removed. We don't need weekly segments showing the different ways Alfie Allen can scream.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

i'd rather die than loose my manhood

Really, never loose? You prefer it stiff all the time :o?

[SeanF]

I haven't seen the Episode. Was Theon cut "root and stem" like Varys, or did he just have his scrotum removed?

[BreastplateWithNipples]

Really, never loose? You prefer it stiff all the time :o?

Always stiff... that's more of a curse than a blessing if I think back on the times when I was 14.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

I haven't seen the Episode. Was Theon cut "root and stem" like Varys, or did he just have his scrotum removed?

Dunno why, but we didn't get the details on screen, and Theon didn't ask as well.

[Jamie Lannister]

I loved the bit when Theon leaped up and tried to strike Ramsay, only to get backhanded down in a flash. That was gold.

Still. Poor Theon. :(

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Best Ramsay part was again, as in the last episode, the horn blowing. Pure awesomeness!

Ramsay really seems to love his horn ;)

[Versiroth]

Felt bad for Theon, but the scene dragged on for a bit. I suppose the TnA quota needs to be filled...

I know, right? Boobs and butts are GROSS!!

[The Mighty Conch]

Seriously, this. Torture isn't justice in any circumstances, especially not when the "justicar" is someone like Ramsay.

Yikes @ the people who are absolutely without pity at the idea of a man getting systematically broken.

Double/triple/quadruple yikes @ the people salivating over the torture, whether they think he deserves it or not.

Transitioning away before we saw what exactly happened was far more effective because, as mentioned, if you have any imagination at all, what you see in your mind is probably far more terrible than a bit of foam rubber and fake blood or whatever else they could come up with. I'm definitely glad some of you guys aren't involved with the show, I'll say that much. :lol:

This. Sometimes I wonder about people on here. There is not a crime that could be done that would justify breaking a person's spirit. Just kill them. No need to bring yourself down to their level.

[WCYarb]

I haven't seen the Episode. Was Theon cut "root and stem" like Varys, or did he just have his scrotum removed?

Given the emphasis placed during the scene how much Theon loved his cock - my belief remains unchanged.

Theon wasn't castrated (balls removed, like the Unsullied) or emasculated (everything gone, like Varys), He was given a penectomy - removing his 'favorite thing in the world'.

[stiff_pirates]

To be honest, the scene could have been done a bit better. I thought the nudity lingered on a bit too much, and they definitely could have amped up the horror of it all, like Joff's scene with the whores or the Harrenhal rat torture. This is really minor nitpicking, but did Ramsay actually come off as a bit of a ladies' man? Unless, of course, he was mentally flaying the two women's corpses when he was copping a feel.

But what a great trick by Ramsay- make Theon feel like a man again, for the first time since his capture, only to bring him down and emasculate him in the most devastating way possible. And I think Theon is already in the early stages of Reek, judging by his reaction to Ramsay entering the room.

I think the weird approach taken to the scenes development was because of its awkward haste = girls seducing him, false sense of security, trumpet blown by Ramsey, castration.

In the books we get quite a bit of time for Theon's torture to take effect as 'Reek'. However, the Tv show only has 10 episode max. to establish how hardcore Ramsey is and how brutally Theon suffers.

[ChromeWeasel]

\

Seriously, this. Torture isn't justice in any circumstances, especially not when the "justicar" is someone like Ramsay.

Yikes @ the people who are absolutely without pity at the idea of a man getting systematically broken.

Double/triple/quadruple yikes @ the people salivating over the torture, whether they think he deserves it or not.

Transitioning away before we saw what exactly happened was far more effective because, as mentioned, if you have any imagination at all, what you see in your mind is probably far more terrible than a bit of foam rubber and fake blood or whatever else they could come up with. I'm definitely glad some of you guys aren't involved with the show, I'll say that much. :lol:

Torture isn't justice, but it can be an effective crime deterrent. You have to remember that in the real middle ages there was a real lack of communication. Criminals and highwaymen could operate relatively freely. You had to have extreme punishments for criminal as deterrents. Historically people seen to prefer to have tremendous punishments for criminals as long as they were consistent and fair.

Of course, that's not the case here. Ramsay isn't vetting out punishment as an example to criminals. He's just a sick bastard who enjoys hurting people.

[cuendillar]

I wonder if it's symbolical. Ramsay wants to removes Theon's personality, as shown by his repeated "mindfucks", to remake him as he'd like. Theon has always been kind of a dick, so...

I'm thinking of something akin to Jaime losing his right hand here, not just another atrocious pun. Odd as it may seem, Theon bragged almost as much about his "swordsmanship" as Jaime did about his fighting skill. With Theon already torn apart by conflicting loyalties between his biological and foster family, he really didn't belong anywhere. The physical loss of identity might have been as bad for Theon as it was for Jaime, and his hell will only get worse.

[ChromeWeasel]

This. Sometimes I wonder about people on here. There is not a crime that could be done that would justify breaking a person's spirit. Just kill them. No need to bring yourself down to their level.

There's no justice in what's happening to Theon. The Starks would simply condemn him and cut off his head. Even Joffrey would apparently just put Theon out of his misery with a relatively quick execution. Ramsay enjoy's torturing people and Theon suffers unbelievable torment. Showing this is by design. It's a good contrast of the philosophical differences between the houses. You definitely don't want the Bolton's to come to power.

I find the comments fairly interesting about actually seeing Theon's suffering. I've read a lot of people who say that it's enough already, we get it. Yet I've also read a lot of comments by people who seem to think that Cersei's walk of shame should be considered 'torture'. I wonder if any of those thoughts are shared by the same people. It's clear that Theon is being tortured. I'd never consider Cersei's silly walk of shame anything remotely close to 'torture.' People who would use the same word to describe both situations may need to see actual physical torture to realize that these things should not be considered in the same league.

[StannisandDaeny]

To the OP, that Theon had been castrated wasn't a theory, it was simply something obvious that wasn't 100 percent confirmed for the purpose of storytelling.

To be honest, the scene could have been done a bit better. I thought the nudity lingered on a bit too much, and they definitely could have amped up the horror of it all, like Joff's scene with the whores or the Harrenhal rat torture.

But what a great trick by Ramsay- make Theon feel like a man again, for the first time since his capture, only to bring him down and emasculate him in the most devastating way possible. And I think Theon is already in the early stages of Reek, judging by his reaction to Ramsay entering the room.

Yeah, 'cos pointless torture scenes (that's the... fourth right now?) that weren't even in the books really need to be made even worse, even more painful to look at. I'm sure everyone is just on the edge of their seat to see more pointless cruelty, that must be the reason anyone watches the show, innit? In the book I wondered what the hell Ramsay had done to him to make him so insane, which was much more scary than just showing all the torture like they're doing now, so yes, I do believe these scenes are pointless. It also sounds to me like you're enjoying this a little bit too much, with your praise for Ramsay and all.

Although, he did kill three people, I don't know how you ever really pay for that.

With death. At some point, you get to a point where you've done crimes that warrant you being killed, and there's no real way you can pay for them by being punished with anything other than death. What you can do is redeem yourself to a certain degree by doing good deeds that have a bigger positive effect than your crimes had a negative effect, however, this still doesn't make you innocent of your crimes and people will still be able to call you out on them.

TWOW gift chapter 'spoiler':

Stannis understands this and is planning to execute Theon despite the fact he did do a very good job saving Jeyne Poole.

Seriously anyone who enjoys watching someone get tortured for any reason is just sick. The Mountain for example most likely 'deserved' to die in pain, but that still doesn't make it anything to cheer about that he spent weeks screaming in pain as the poison was slowly killing him. That you cheer about his death, on the other hand, I could understand, but the purpose of enacting justice should be to kill people that have shown to be capable of bringing pointless suffering onto the world to decrease the overall suffering that takes place in the world, not cause even more suffering yourself, even if it is the criminal you're torturing (how else are you going to distance yourself from the criminal?).

It's a common theme in ASOIAF that justice rarely takes place. Cersei for example deserved punishment, but the walk of shame was hardly the way to go about it, not to mention being forced on her for the wrong reasons, and by the wrong person. Theon is another such example: Ramsay isn't torturing him because of his crimes, he's simply doing so because he's a dick.

[Sword of the Morning Wood]

About the rights and wrongs of torture or mutilation as justice or revenge. Of course, in modern society, it has no place and it's absolutely right that we don't do it even under terrible circumstances....but, Theon is responsible for the murder of multiple people. If he'd murdered someone I loved or a member of my family, I'd be doing exactly what Ramsey's doing and I'd enjoy it. And I'd see it absolutely as justice. That doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for his situation but he didn't show any mercy to the people who's lives he took.

[Joyful Union]

Yeah, 'cos pointless torture scenes (that's the... fourth right now?) that weren't even in the books really need to be made even worse, even more painful to look at. I'm sure everyone is just on the edge of their seat to see more pointless cruelty, that must be the reason anyone watches the show, innit? In the book I wondered what the hell Ramsay had done to him to make him so insane, which was much more scary than just showing all the torture like they're doing now, so yes, I do believe these scenes are pointless. It also sounds to me like you're enjoying this a little bit too much, with your praise for Ramsay and all.

And I think you may need to reread DwD, because its made abundantly clear what Ramsay had been doing to Theon. There are extensive flashbacks and recollections in the book to what Ramsay did which the show cant do.

Also, no need to attack posters based on which scenes they enjoy just because you don't personally enjoy them.

[Gannicus]

There is way too much Theon. It's terrible television. We get it.

Let's use those 10 minutes more efficiently, come on guys.