[TV and Book Spoilers] Poor Theon

[Young Nan]

There is way too much Theon. It's terrible television. We get it.

Let's use those 10 minutes more efficiently, come on guys.

that sums it up for me too. They are drawing out the Theon torture scenes way too much. I'm not offended by it, just think it didn't require so much screen time, and that the "who is torturing Theon" mystery is pointless anyways since the average viewer barely remembers who Roose Bolton is, let alone the fact that last year there was a ten second scene where he mentioned having a bastard, and sending that bastard to take winterfell back from Theon.

Theon is getting tortured, we get it. next!

[FlipFantastic]

Theon wasn't castrated (balls removed, like the Unsullied) or emasculated (everything gone, like Varys), He was given a penectomy - removing his 'favorite thing in the world'.

This is what I've always believed, too. Leaving the balls keeps him 'manly' and horny, but no dick... man its just cruel, and exactly what a person like Ramsey would do.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Whether Theon deserves what happens to him is kind of academic, I think. He did terrible things, and terrible things are done to him, and whether that balances or not is sort of up to individual opinions (for some reason it felt balanced to me in the book, but in the show it feels like what's happening to him is way worse than what he did), although I fully agree that it's not "justice" in any actual law-and-order sense of the word.

Mainly, I think I've reached my threshhold of how much Theon torture I can watch with any kind of enjoyment. I was totally on board with it at first, but It's gotten to the point of just feeling really uncomfortable and pointless. Hopefully there will only be one more scene where "Boy" is revealed, and it will be more showing the pschological effects of the torture rather than more torture.

[WildBlood]

I kind of hoped he wouldn't be gelded in the show. For some reason, genital mutilation seems to disturb me far more than any other form of torture.

Yea... But he deserved that and much more. lol

[Kyoti]

I honestly think the torture of Theon will go on as long as there are still people out there saying "good for him, he's getting what he deserves". Theon/Reek a powerful display of ultimate corruption leading to possible redemption just like Tolkin did with Smeagol/Gollum. And unfortunately with this being on TV you can't pull off tricks like just introducing characters like Reek or Arstan Whitebeard because as soon as viewers see them on screen they will know that it's Theon or Barriston, so they have to show you. It's not enough for you as the viewer to be bothered by it, you have to want mercy for him, you have to want him to be free of this horrible fate because even as horrid as Theon was no one deserves this. For any of his possible redemption arcs to have any weight in the show the viewers must first sympathize with him, and there are still way too many people who don't care about wicked, nasty, Theon turn-cloak getting what he has coming.

[JMJ]

I think they've crossed the line into showing too much of the torture. We get it. Theon is now totally f'ed up. I am not squeamish one bit, but now my wife won't watch the show when his scenes come up. It's become gratuitous.

That being said, I don't know who came up with this, but did anyone else notice the specific blade Ramsay took out to use on Theon? Is that is castration-specific instrument? Ugh.

[YTDN]

Well, Alfie's only supposed to be in one more episode this season, and I'm pretty sure that's gonna be Episode 10. I think next season they're going to do a Season 2 Jaime type thing, and have him only appear near the end of the season, probably starting on his ADWD stuff. There's not much they can get out of this arc anyway.

[HopeForSpring]

So I don't exactly enjoy the Theon scenes or gratuitous TnA but honestly I think this scene was perfect.

Theon's personal identity as seen in the books and show revolved around how awesome he thought of himself in bed. It needed to be long enough to remind the viewer of that and long enough for the unsullied to believe he might just be allowed to really have sex, really, they might actually let him, it's gone on so long... No.

They've shown now the worst thing that could have been done to him from his point of view in the worst possible way.

Horrible. (ETA: In a it was truly truly horrible what was done to him in the books and they are getting it across)

Now I hope we get a break.

[Myk Lonmouth]

These scenes are the best, Ramsay is such a lunatic. I'm glad Martin pretty much confirms Theon's mutilation here. People insisting he wasn't because it wasn't explicitly written out was annoying. This isn't gelding by the way, it's a step further. I love the horn blowing too. Such an obnoxious and frightening shock it delivers. I didn't think the nudity lingered too long at all. It would probably take a while to get someone who's shitting themselves scared every conscious second of the day to become aroused. I'm wondering if this will be the last we see of Theon this season, the blurring out at the end of the scene was kind of strange.

[swoosh stark]

Really, never loose? You prefer it stiff all the time :o?

i meant lose

[Urine Greyjoy]

I don't care what Theon's done in his life, nobody deserves to have their dick flayed and amputated. Not unless you're someone like Andrei Chikatilo or Jeffrey Dahmer or some shit.

Killing a few peasants is hardly the worst crime committed by Westerosi nobility either. I have nothing but pity for him. By the end of ADWD he seems like he's too emotionally broken to even kill himself, which is beyond pitiful. I hope Stannis hurries up and puts him out of his misery.

[yushkevsh]

I'm firmly in the camp that Theon deserves every bit of what he's getting and more. He killed two innocent children just to prove a point. That is unforgivable and although I don't mind the series slowly turning his character around to be .. liked? I think he has to go through this before we can sympathize.

As a reader I couldn't look past what he had done until he paid a really steep price. The books didn't quite do that for me, the show looks like it will.

[buckfosto]

Also I have to say that I got nauseous from my own mental image right after the scene ended. I'm not that squeamish when I'm watching a show or movie because when I know its fake (prosthetic effects, CG or w/e) it just doesn't get to me, but with the knife and the setup I got a clear mental image of what would really happen if you did that to someone (or ugh, me) and I felt nauseous for about 10 mins after. Didn't help I had ate dinner only 20 mins before. Seriously though fellas, if you think Theon "got what was coming" actually picture "what was coming" for a minute. Not an image that is close to justice any way around. If it was Robb taking Theon head with his two own hands, well that's different entirely.

And that's the power of suggestion and leaving it to the viewers imagination. It's why Reek had such impact in the books (all of the stuff happening on screen was alluded to) and the same reason The Tickler was so scary in the books. You had no idea what he was doing and your mind came up with all sorts of things that were way worse than even the rat torture (as horrible as it was) was on the show.

I think the blurring of the scene kind of means the end of that story until the finale. It's usually used as a transition to show passage of time I think Theon is only supposed to be in one more epsiode. I can't see much worse happening to Theon than getting choppy choppy his pee pee so all of the other stuff may happen off screen and we just see him as Reek. I mentioned this in a previous thread but it's a lot like having a close friend who loses a lot of weight. If you see him/her all the time you may not even really notice it. When a person sees them for the first time in months, it has a big impact. I think they can do the same with Theon and show him (much in the same way as Reek is introduced in the book) with people's imaginations running wild with "What the hell did he do to him?!?!"

Also, I think the finale will reveal Ramsay and probably show the Ironborn flayed (and possibly those two girls as well). I think that will be the final breaking point of the season for Theon...I doubt it will be physical.

[ckongo]

It really was never a mystery. It was implied heavily. The only thing GRRM could do to make it clear was just to state it, which he kind of did now I guess.

I guess the debate could still go on if he has his nuts. I always assumed he just lost his cock, and that he did the "flaying game." I don't know if that's the case in the show.

[Jojosh]

Mutilating his junk is a lot more plausible than having the whole thing cut off since that would kill him out right.

Then again this is the show so I'm not sure if some people want to make concessions on the books based on the eps that GRRM writes

[Frumpus]

Yea... But he deserved that and much more. lol

No he didn't.

[Philwinklo]

that sums it up for me too. They are drawing out the Theon torture scenes way too much. I'm not offended by it, just think it didn't require so much screen time, and that the "who is torturing Theon" mystery is pointless anyways since the average viewer barely remembers who Roose Bolton is, let alone the fact that last year there was a ten second scene where he mentioned having a bastard, and sending that bastard to take winterfell back from Theon.

Theon is getting tortured, we get it. next!

These comments seem prevalent every time Theon's torture is shown. But these scenes aren't about torture - they are about Theon's transformation into Reek. Over this season, Theon has gone from defiant ("escaping" and being recaptured) to despondent with a glimmer of hope ("If you think this ends well...") to completely fearful (turning down sex out of fear).

Presumably, the next time we see him, he will be Reek (or nearly so) - completely broken and subservient to his torturer. In the novels, we understand his perspective and don't have to see the intermittent phases. The series may require this progression in order for the viewer to understand the Reek character without the advantage of his POV.

Also, if I am right that Theon is nearly Reek, then presumably next season will include even more material moved up from Dance and the show will cut some of the peripheral plots from Feast. For better or worse.

[cuendillar]

I don't care what Theon's done in his life, nobody deserves to have their dick flayed and amputated. Not unless you're someone like Andrei Chikatilo or Jeffrey Dahmer or some shit.

Killing a few peasants is hardly the worst crime committed by Westerosi nobility either. I have nothing but pity for him. By the end of ADWD he seems like he's too emotionally broken to even kill himself, which is beyond pitiful. I hope Stannis hurries up and puts him out of his misery.

There is a surprisingly well-founded theory around that those two boys were in fact his bastard sons, making Theon an unknowing Kinslayer. Kinslaying is probably the worst crime in the eyes of gods and men that you can commit in Westeros, on par with violating guest right.

It's well established that the miller's wife was his lover, and their ages fit rather well. It's also the only reason anyone could consider him a kinslayer after being informed that the Stark boys were alive, or unrelated to him.

It's all made clear here, with plenty of book quotes, as part of an outlining of suspects for the "hooded man" in Winterfell.

[Urine Greyjoy]

Mutilating his junk is a lot more plausible than having the whole thing cut off since that would kill him out right.

Then again this is the show so I'm not sure if some people want to make concessions on the books based on the eps that GRRM writes

Not true, you can cut off the schwanz and just cauterize it afterwards and the mortality rate will be pretty low.

And how can those millers boys be Theon's bastard sons? he'd have to have fucked the miller chick when he was like...11? 12?

[The Key Is Patchface]

I think they're probably making those women appear to be willing accomplices so Ramsay can do something horrible to them and cement his position as The Worst Person. Most of my friends ascribed a lot more importance to them than we know there is, so something tells me they could pull a real shocker if something like that happens.

I was SURE when they were on top of Theon we'd see an arrow rip through their chests and Theon get splattered with their blood, THEN get all chopped